Boris and the party photo

[Thomas]

Sounds a bit dull to be honest.

Tommy and Good Old are probably having a whale of a time tossing and goring each other and I can't see any reason to spoil their fun.

Its always enjoyable debating with labour supporters on this or any other forum borkie. They seem to have never heard that old adage about when dealing with customers , it takes years to build trust , seconds to break it , and once broken , it isnt coming back.

Dredging up al this tony blair guff yet again brought back some memories ,the man is literally a gold mine for political opponents of blairte labour.

I read an old article there from 2015 about Rachel Reeve , the shadow chancellor , who was being mocked relentlessly by the media for not understanding the basic principles of the welfare state.

Can you imagine that? A champagne socialist in a prominent position who doesnt understand the welfare state her own party relentlessly drones on about , and starmer want us to trust him and her to run the yookay?

Whatever boris failings , and we know there are many , he should take a leaf out of sturgeons book. When the going gets tough , just mention tony blair and labour are being attacked relentlessly left right and centre.

i see on average yet again labour are still looking to be well short of a majority according to average of recent polls.

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

[Borchester]

Mod notice

Could we please be careful to address the subject of the thread with a little less antagonism to the individual poster quoted. After all without their input there would be no debate so please avoid referring to a member on a personal level.

Sounds a bit dull to be honest.

Tommy and Good Old are probably having a whale of a time tossing and goring each other and I can't see any reason to spoil their fun.

[Thomas]

remember prime minsiter david cameron eviscearting ed milliband , another tony blair clone , over the rbs scandal?

PM: "We've just had a demonstration of the grasp of maths that was involved at the Treasury [under the previous Labour government]. No wonder we had banks collapsing and all the rest of it.

"You come here every week to complain about a problem created by the Labour Party. Last week it was betting, this week is was banking. You rise up with all the moral authority of Reverend Flowers – where' the apology for the mess you [Labour] made of RBS in the first place?

"Darling invested £45bn of taxpayer cash into RBS under an arrangement by which we are unlikely to ever to see most of it returned. Meanwhile, as his own colleagues in the No Campaign pointed out again today, it was Darling that allowed RBS to keep paying big banker bonuses."

He went on to call the former labour party chancellor labours weapon of maths destruction. 

We are now being asked to put the economy in the hands of the likes of dodds and reeve .

Reeves blames Corbyn for party's financial collapse – and says member exodus is a good thing 
Labour had £13m surplus at the end of Corbyn's leadership, but MP who said Labour would be tougher on benefit claimants than the Tories thinks near-bankruptcy is his fault

Keir Starmer's Shadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves appears to have decided that the way to convince voters they can trust Labour with the country's coffers is by talking blatant nonsense about the party's own finances.
The MP, who infamously once promised that Labour would be harder on benefits claimants than the horrors of David Cameron's government, has told the Financial Times that Labour's near-bankruptcy is – you've guessed it – Jeremy Corbyn's fault. Corbyn, of course, left Labour in strong financial health for the first time in decades after a surge in membership and in hope of real change – with a £13.5 million surplus in the last year of his leadership despite having to fight and fund a general election campaign.
Reeves, an avowed fan of notorious antisemite Nancy Astor, also said that the huge exodus of Labour members along with around £8 million a year of their dues – including in her own constituency – since Keir Starmer became leader and dragged the party to the Stalinist right was a good thing:

https://skwawkbox.org/2022/01/20/reeves-blames-corbyn-for-partys-financial-collapse-and-says-member-exodus-is-a-good-thing/


you wouldnt trust racheal reeve to run your bath never mind control the finances of a country. What a muppet that woman actually is.

[Thomas]

[Thomas]

while good old egs us to trust in starmer , the labour lefties keep reminding us on twitter of all keir starmers broken pledges i nthe short time he has been in office.

[Thomas]

I can't believe 15 years after the man left power we are still discussing the legacy of Tony blair with his apologists on political forums all because the new labourites have found a new lease of life with boris self inflicted problems.

I mean how many times have we done this to death on these forums , eviscerated blair , and still we get a new labour worshipper trying to polish a turd to make keir starmer electable.

Blairs legacy is ashes. When he came to power , with the best economic legacy any labour leader had ever inherited , house prices on average were 4 times the average salary. At the end of the new labour term , they had houseprices and the cost of living out of control , and of course thatcher built more houses than new labour ever did. I think both morayloon in scotland , and srb in england laid bare new labours housing legacy for the sham it was in past discussions on this forum.

On top of that , as we all know the fantasy that new labour invested more in services than any other post war governmen was also shown up for the sham it was........all done on cosy PFI deals , where the public purse would pay back 5 times or more the cost  , all booted into the distance for incoming governemnts to have the debt list laid onto their books while the sham that was blairism told the voter how they had created a miracle.

Embarressing.

Some prime minsinters rightly or wrongly tried to deal with problems , blair sat and talked about dealing with them and no more.

I love the quote from an article i read on blair and new labours attitude to nationalism and britishness. The old nationalism was to be cast aside as dirty and ethnic , blairs new nationalism , where he opened the doors to the uncontrolled hordes , and the incomers signed up to blairs britishness as one would a gym membership. About sums blair and new labour up.

Comeing to the present , keir starmer and his part are bereft of vision , and offer nothing new.

I think too many people are getting edgy for no reason. Johnson is having a wobble , no doubt , but potentially we are still best part of two years from an election , and labours so called lead in the polls was something like a couple of points last i looked. I havent seen many if any polls with labour holding a majority government of their own.

Keir starmers tactics are full of holes and he makes too many childlike errors. Going into coalition in scotland at council level with the tories is a prime example of a man shooting himself in both feet when the goal is in front of him. His record is poor in england as well at by elections , local elections werent anything spectacular for him.

This forum epitomises keir starmers massive problems. He doesnt appeal to me a scot nat , or morayloon. Streetwalker and barry wont vote his party , and lefties like srb depsise the man.

He may appeal to the small c tories like patman in hackney , and those who want to talk about capitalism with trendy lefties in north london , but winning an outright general election? im not sure.

[Thomas]

Thomas, the master of ,Bullshit. Of course you have never voted Tory. So what? You are not here to vote, just spill your propaganda.
A totally blinkered view of the situation in 1998. The Tories had sunk our economy to the deck on at least two occasions in their time, they had taken part in military action in a volatile Middle East , they had presided over the  highest unemployment levels, and astronomical inflation since before WW2.

Life has moved on since Tony Blair's time, and his trick cannot be repeated.

Blair's special art was his ability to appeal to two completely different audiences. On the one hand he could rely on Labour's historic base among the remains of the working class and the trade unions.

On the other hand, Blair, a former public schoolboy, offered reassurance for the English middle classes who had traditionally voted Conservative.

on the economy the article goes on....

Blair was lucky with his Conservative opponents and luckier still with the economy. He inherited the best economic legacy of any incoming Labour government and enjoyed the most favourable global economic environment.

In spite of these advantages, Blair managed to lose four million votes between 1997 and 2005, and over the longer term, Labour has paid a huge price for his outlook and methods.

https://www.politico.eu/article/labour-recovery-uk-election-blair/





Tony blair inherited the best economic legacy any incoming labour leader had enjoyed in history , and now here in 2022 , good olds historical revisionism trys to insinuate it was all tony blairs good hard work .

The man was and remains a charlatan. Any labour leader trying to ape him in manners and ideals is doomed to failure.

[Thomas]

Nothing new then Thomas.?

There isnt meant to be . We are discussing history ,and im just reminding you during your bout of historical revisionism the economy tony blair inherited from the conservatives was on the up , and conservative economic policy so popular that mr blair both endorsed it and continued where major and thatcher left off.

Everything about tony blair and new labour was a fraud .

If that's supposed to be a sample of thinking outside the box, and promoting a new radical change for England, and the U.K. then you fail miserably.

im not here to promote radical new ideas for england or the uk. Im asking where are yours. ?

No where to be seen as ever. Instead , you tell the forum please vote for sir keir for more of the same claptrap the red tories have been dishing up since 1997.

Your always looking Thomas, never seeming to find , and if you have , never sharing.

im a scottish indy supporter remember?

Meanwhile , you tell us to put our economic faith in keir starmer while we are stuck in this uk , a man who cant tell the voters what a woman is , whose party has bankrupted the uk more times than i can remember , and has lost two major elections in scotland and achieved piss poor results in england since he was elected labour leader.

Nothing to offer the public except more of the same old vote labour cause the tories are bad. Yawn.

[Good old]

john major handed over an economy on the rise to tony blair and gordon brown , so much so , Tony blair and new labour not only praised margaret thatchers economic reforms ,but the whole new labour project required the wholesale continuation of thatchers neo liberalism .Tony blair championed the continued marketisation of much that had once been in the public domain.

The first english hospital to be privatised from the old style nhs was done under new labour.

So what are you actually talking about? That the tories economic role model of the previous 17 years was failing that badly yet new labour praised it and endorsed it ? New labour practically became the tory party , so much so that everyone north of the watford gap mocked them as the red tories. Now , all these years later ,as you start once again to get a sniff of power , you try and re write history to suit the latest labour party narrative.you governed in the sunshine of an economic boom the tories left for you ,so much so you praised their economic policies while in power , and wrecked the economy as ever by being extremely lax on banking regualtion.

We see this same economic mess being left time and again at council level , croydon and liverpool spring to mind in your country. Labour couldnt run a bath never mind a country. Look at wales.
i can see that . You dream inside the box , of a two party system where you comfortably sit and slag off the tories , until something new comes along to upset your applecart.

like i said , its like debating with a 1970`s dinosaur. This is 2022.
i on the other hand dont believe that doing the same thing over and over again and again and expecting a different result is sound policy. Thats why labour dont get my vote , and many millions of others.

Labour arent there to put radical ideas to the public , they are ther to maintain the status quo. I doubt you or keir starmer have ever had an original thought in your entire lives.

Hence , what tyhe public , especially in england  , is railroaded down a dead end close and forced toi vote in a two horse race , not for who will imrpove thier lives , but who will least damage their lives.

i say politically its unsustainable. Status quoers like you dont want change for the better , only more of the same dross thats been dished up for the last 50 years.
Every country in the uk except england voted in those last elections the other week in proportional systems. The only country that didnt was england. So what are you talking about now?

More to the point , your own fackin party was instrumental in forcing those proportional systems on nations like mine , while you force the english to stay in the two horse stitch up.

The only frauds on this forum are you and your labour ilk . say anything do anything , lie about anything to gain power , and then shaft the voter every time......thats labour.
we are. Rishi sunak , egged on by the red tories , has levied a windfall tax on north sea oil , and 90% of the £5 billion estimated revenue will come from my country paying whoever is in number ten.

The scottish cash cow lays another golden egg.

Nothing new then Thomas.?  If that's supposed to be a sample of thinking outside the box, and promoting a new radical change for England, and the U.K. then you fail miserably. Your always looking Thomas, never seeming to find , and if you have , never sharing.

[T00ts]

Mod notice

Could we please be careful to address the subject of the thread with a little less antagonism to the individual poster quoted. After all without their input there would be no debate so please avoid referring to a member on a personal level. 

[Thomas]

Thomas, the master of ,Bullshit. Of course you have never voted Tory. So what? You are not here to vote, just spill your propaganda.
A totally blinkered view of the situation in 1998. The Tories had sunk our economy to the deck on at least two occasions in their time, they had taken part in military action in a volatile Middle East , they had presided over the  highest unemployment levels, and astronomical inflation since before WW2. Yes an upturn from those disastrous levels was attained before taking on Blair,.so rose tinted , or what Thomas?

john major handed over an economy on the rise to tony blair and gordon brown , so much so , Tony blair and new labour not only praised margaret thatchers economic reforms ,but the whole new labour project required the wholesale continuation of thatchers neo liberalism .Tony blair championed the continued marketisation of much that had once been in the public domain.

The first english hospital to be privatised from the old style nhs was done under new labour.

So what are you actually talking about? That the tories economic role model of the previous 17 years was failing that badly yet new labour praised it and endorsed it ? New labour practically became the tory party , so much so that everyone north of the watford gap mocked them as the red tories. Now , all these years later ,as you start once again to get a sniff of power , you try and re write history to suit the latest labour party narrative.

The economy improved under Labour,. Until 2008 when the banking crisis pulled the economy down.

you governed in the sunshine of an economic boom the tories left for you ,so much so you praised their economic policies while in power , and wrecked the economy as ever by being extremely lax on banking regualtion.

We see this same economic mess being left time and again at council level , croydon and liverpool spring to mind in your country. Labour couldnt run a bath never mind a country. Look at wales.

You are confused again, I dont dream outside the box.

i can see that . You dream inside the box , of a two party system where you comfortably sit and slag off the tories , until something new comes along to upset your applecart.

like i said , its like debating with a 1970`s dinosaur. This is 2022.

I don't dream of perfection, I seek improvement, even allowing for and improving past performance.

i on the other hand dont believe that doing the same thing over and over again and again and expecting a different result is sound policy. Thats why labour dont get my vote , and many millions of others.

Labour arent there to put radical ideas to the public , they are ther to maintain the status quo. I doubt you or keir starmer have ever had an original thought in your entire lives.

Hence , what tyhe public , especially in england  , is railroaded down a dead end close and forced toi vote in a two horse race , not for who will imrpove thier lives , but who will least damage their lives.

i say politically its unsustainable. Status quoers like you dont want change for the better , only more of the same dross thats been dished up for the last 50 years.

If we had a system that widen the share of the prize I would support it.

Every country in the uk except england voted in those last elections the other week in proportional systems. The only country that didnt was england. So what are you talking about now?

More to the point , your own fackin party was instrumental in forcing those proportional systems on nations like mine , while you force the english to stay in the two horse stitch up.

The only frauds on this forum are you and your labour ilk . say anything do anything , lie about anything to gain power , and then shaft the voter every time......thats labour.

You will be paying whoever is in No 10 believe me

we are. Rishi sunak , egged on by the red tories , has levied a windfall tax on north sea oil , and 90% of the £5 billion estimated revenue will come from my country paying whoever is in number ten.

The scottish cash cow lays another golden egg.

[Borchester]

dry your eyes borkie dear.

Everytime the labour party are in power at westminster , they make such a monumental balls up of things , scottish indy takes another step forward.

I am glad to hear that Tommy.

My impression was that, based on the last month's local council elections, the Scottish Labour party had started to fight back. Plus, various opinion polls suggest that come the 2023 Indy2, the electorate will give the SNP the same Agincourt Salute that it got in 2014.

I dare say that the Brothers and Sisters will think on the above, decide that they are still in with a chance north of the border and decide that there is no advantage in granting Scotland independence.

Still, I am sure you know better



 

[Good old]

I dont vote tory. In my entire life , i have never voted for them , and never will. However grudgingly , the fact remains much of europe and the western world in general , are facing high inflation , major problems post covid and the effects of global issues .

In the last twelve years of tory rule , at your parliament , they have had to pick up the pieces of a shattered economy labour left in 2010 , out of control PFI debt labour left , wars and general global unrest caused in part by the warmongering of blair and his bosses in washington , scot indy ref , brexit ref , which i stil say today blair fuelled the fire of anti eu sentiment in your nation by his catastrophic mass immigration from eastern europe during his time in power , a once in a century covid pandemic , and now on the brink of nuclear war.

Contrast that to new labours last 13 years in power , where the tories left them an economy on the up , they governed in the sunshine of an economic boom , but still managed to destroy the uk economy and leave vast swathes of unnecessary debt , by thier lax banking industry regualtion.
nec
Your final two sentences is just more of the good old inability to think outside the box as well as being unable to read what is being posted to him. Im a scottish indy supporter. Has that sunk in yet.?

I dont want my politicians in your parliament , and its not my job to dig you out of the shite by making suggestions to save your country. Thats your job.....and your fellow countrymen , to break out of the cycle of voting dumb and dumber and try and achieve a government in power who have the wit to govern and are elected on merit.

You are an old man with out of date political thinking who can't think outside of the two party system. When people like myself come along , or even englishmen like streetwalker , who dont support tory or labour , it sends you potty.

All your well rehearsed arguemtns of labour good tory bad go out the window , as they are useles against people who support neither party.

You , and your party as i always say are a large part of the uk problems. You arent the solution.

Potentially falling into power in a two horse race by offering nothing saying little and doing nothing shows exactly why the uk is in such a mess , and has been on the decline these past 100 years.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks they say , and i fully believe that. So i expect my words to bounce of closed ears. It will be interesteing though to watch the labour muppets , if they do win the next election , dealing with real problems in government instead of sitting on their hands and carping from the sidelines.

The only problem is yet again , i and my family like countless others will be expected to pay for thier incomptence and profligacy , and on and on the cycle will go .

Thomas, the master of ,Bullshit. Of course you have never voted Tory. So what? You are not here to vote, just spill your propaganda.
A totally blinkered view of the situation in 1998. The Tories had sunk our economy to the deck on at least two occasions in their time, they had taken part in military action in a volatile Middle East , they had presided over the  highest unemployment levels, and astronomical inflation since before WW2. Yes an upturn from those disastrous levels was attained before taking on Blair,.so rose tinted , or what Thomas?
Labour destroying the economy is another of your dreams. The economy improved under Labour,. Until 2008 when the banking crisis pulled the economy down. This event was to effect the economies of much of the 1st world, that proven and acknowledged time and again. It happened on Labours watch, that's all. Just as so much has happened recently on the Tory watch.
You talk of unnecessary debt. How do you explain the 800 billion extra borrowing done before Covid, at a time when government budgets were cut to the bone, and an economy growing less than under Labour.?
You say I do not, can not think outside the box. You are confused again, I dont dream outside the box.
I don't dream of perfection, I seek improvement, even allowing for and improving past performance.
The biggest laugh of all is ,for you to accuse me of Tory bad. Then call me a Red Tory, which contains some truth,  whilst you are  delivering page after page of anti Labour propaganda. I say again Thomas, you are a freud .
Yes as things stand it's a two horse race on the whole. That's how it is. If we had a system that widen the share of the prize I would support it. But we don't. Whatever we have will not end all of our troubles, as it will always be the work of mere mortals. And that is not just part of the problem, it is the problem.
 It doesn't matter that it not your business, your a frigging dreamer.
You will be paying whoever is in No 10 believe me , in all your wisdom you haven't noticed this country,  the world is in deep crisis.

[Thomas]

[Thomas]

The Labour party is Tommy's ouch spot, so he should be allowed to throw the occasional strop, particularly with Keir Starmer set to be then next PM. If that happens the Scots will learn to play rugby before the Brothers and Sisters allow Scotland independence.

As to who is going to replace the fallible human beings currently at Westminster, as Good Old meant to say, the last bloke who fitted the bill ended up with a nail in each hand hanging from a cross.

Anyway, I have had a chat with one of my local Councillors re the likelihood of a Labour government applying for readmission to the EU and she replied that was what was called in political circles. pissing in the soup.

The Councillor is a girlie and a politician so she lies automatically, but broken clocks etc.

I reckon the UK should survive a Labour government

dry your eyes borkie dear.

Everytime the labour party are in power at westminster , they make such a monumental balls up of things , scottish indy takes another step forward.

We had wilsons and callaghans  labour governments of the seventies , where they had the snp vote in scotland up at 30%  , the highest amount of snp mps since the parties formation , mass calls for scottish home rule which led to the infamous 1979 devolution referendum.

Labours betrayal simmered for the next 17 years until blair won his infamous landlside vicotry in 1997 , carved up your uk into devolved pieces for the first time in three hundred years , and laid the platform for the snp to take power in 2007 , and the brink of indpendence.

The famous words of the labour party muppets regarding devolution was it would kill nationalism  , thats scottish not british of course , stone dead.

If that who you have your hopes pinned on to save the union , who am i to dissuade someone who gets his political insight of whats happening in jockland from some beano comic in the big smoke.

As isaid borkie , you are fast becoming the borkie smurf  of this politics forum. How many times now have we seen you make political predictions , often backed up with a bet on giving a pony to the local allotment charity if you lose , and i have lost count of the amount of times you should have lost money.

So if you reckon the uk could survive a red tory government , who am i to argue ? Nobody like a turncoat , but if you want to run with the hares and chase wae the hounds , crack on borkie.

when you told the forum the other day that sir keir wouldnt rock the boat and take the uk back into the EU , i havent laughed so hard since pappysmurf told the forum he voted tory in 2019.