Union flag banned

[GerryT]

One minute gerry is being disrespectfull to your prime minister by calling him "the liar" , the next demanding respect for the eu parliament. :roll:

No, that's a proven fact, not disrespectful.

Now i dont know about you streetwalker , but the last thing i give a sh*t about is how "respectfull" politicians i vote for are. What i want them to do is their job , and what they promised before i voted for them.



Gerry and conor are simply carrying on as they have been for the last year or so , throwing anything and everything in the road in front of you as they retreat to stop england leaving the eu.......but apparently they are irish living in the republic who dont want england to leave? ::



I mean FFS he is now on about upsetting the poor orangemen in northern ireland ? The same people him and conor were slagging off a few months back on our old forum?



You cant brexit because there is now gonnae be a border down the irish sea , you know , the one gerry and conor were calling for  , for the last year?



Sometime i read posts on these forums and think has this guy forgot what he said yesterday or what? :roll:

It pains me to keep saying the conversation has moved on, the UK is leaving, but you put words in peoples mouths saying we want to stop it. Again I repeat the UK is leaving, wax in the ears I guess.

The Sea border was as May put it "no UK prime minister could agree to it", I am happy as that border is good news for Ireland. You fail to see or ignore the point, Johnson will say anything, lie after lie, then do the opposite and the UK people love him. If brexit was about the UK and getting back control it's sad to see the UK no longer being the UK as it half amputates NI from the union.

[GerryT]

So now we have cleared up that the Brexit /ukip  MEP's are not disrespectful to the people who elected them you now say they are (very)  disrespectful to other people trying to do their business .

That business is furthering the integration of the UK into the EU Federalist state , You bet your by golly wow they are going to be disrespectful .



 And Farage Mia , behave yourself .

The UK had many exceptions, one being no further UK integration in the EU. So your wrong there. The EU a federalist state, well your wrong there as well. Any more wrong statements you'd like to get out there ?

[Scott777]

[Streetwalker]

Well today cannot slip by without marking it as our last day in the European Parliament  ,Strasbourg venue . Our friends in Europe wasted no time in removing the Union flag from EU buildings and consigning them to EU history museum , yes they have one apparently  :Patriot:





https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-to-uk-youre-history/">https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-to-uk-youre-history/



A few of the MEP's were delighted to be made redundant though some were a little less happy seeing the end of their careers as Euro politicos . There was commotion in Strasbourg as the Italians wanted their flags on the table ,vocally supported by the Brexit party  but  shouted down by the French and the Germans they went into reverse .





https://www.euronews.com/2020/01/16/watch-brexit-party-meps-triumphant-on-last-day-in-strasbourg?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+euronews%2Fen%2Feuropa+%28euronews+-+europa+-+en%29">https://www.euronews.com/2020/01/16/wat ... pa+-+en%29">https://www.euronews.com/2020/01/16/watch-brexit-party-meps-triumphant-on-last-day-in-strasbourg?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+euronews%2Fen%2Feuropa+%28euronews+-+europa+-+en%29



So back to Brussels they go to clear out their desks one last time , goodbye Strasbourg , and good riddence .

[Conchúr]

And just to add to the above, the Withdrawal Agreement doesn't only chuck the DUP under the bus, there are also elements that may well be chucking fundamental principles of Brexit under the bus too.  If Northern Ireland remains in the EU regulatory sphere on certain areas, then it is utterly inevitable that it will have to comply with relevant EU law and regulation permanently. This means companies in Great Britain with NI subsidiaries or operations / supply chains in NI will find themselves having to comply with EU law and therefore EU law being applicable in domestic British courts.  



So it's not just NI Unionists who need to be wary of the future because of the WA.

[Conchúr]

You are merely deflecting now as ever.



When Gerry said this..







and i reply with this clear point to him...







and you continue with the same theme..







There is clearly no lack of understanding from me .There is no lack of understanding your post . Clearly you are merely doing your ususal , deflecting playing semantics and littering the thread with bullshit and innuendo when you are being put to the sword.



Lets recap once more.



You told us time and again not to listen to or take any notice of the DUP and unionists. Your whole argument rested previously around the fact



1. The majority of northern ireland  voted remain. No mention of taking into consideration at any stage the minority who didnt.



2. Respecting the good friday agreement. No mention of taking into consideration the minority who dont want to respect it.



3.You Gerry and the wider ireland/ northern ireland were happy with the deal the 6 counties were getting , you even went on to brag how you were entirely vindicated in what you had previously argued , no mention at any time of the minority in the 6 counties who disagreed with you.



So why the feck after all you have said , do we need to now consider a minority , unionist or otherwise , in the 6 counties who might not agree with the WA? , ( apart from it now being convenient to mention it for the purpose of this debate)



You are yet again doing nothing but throwing stuff in the the road to attempt to muddy the waters and complicate brexit. We both know it.



Feck all to do with some shitty interpretation of yours.







Perhaps you should. So far , your english campaign has lost every step of the way , you have been routed , england is leaving , and even though northern ireland is getting a great deal by your own words , you arent happy with it and we have to consider everyones feelings in the process ::







Quite clearly you are waffling more bullshit doggy. Northern ireland is getting a great deal , it s getting the best of both worlds ,and isnt in any way being chucked under a bus  .



So no its not acceptable to make two contradictory statements when the latter statement i picked you and yer pal up on goes against everything you have said and argued across two forums for the past year or more.



Its like me arguing for scottish indy , england agreeing we should split , then me saying you are chucking us under a bus , what about the minority of scottish unionists who dont want indy?



The brave new world where no one is allowed to lose and everyone has to be a winner ::







Bollocks. Gerry didnt say Unionists " were being chucked under a bus , and its clear nationalists are getting what they want along with the majority who voted remain.



He clearly said northern ireland is getting chucked under a bus which is demonstrably not true .



A long winded way conor of saying you are talking shite and have been caught out yet again.

You're telling me that it's "deflection" to inform you that applying someone else's perspective is not the same as agreeing.  Right so from Hitler's perspective, Jews were scum.  Would you consider it deflection if I explained that I'm not an antisemite but that this was simply Hitler's perspective towards Jews ?



I mean...come on Thomas. You are not making sense here.



Anyway...on to your point where you are saying that I have claimed Unionists and Leavers in NI should not be listened to.  This is incorrect generally, and also specifically to the point we are discussing here.  It's incorrect generally because I have had other discussions with you before regarding a United Ireland where I have spoken about accommodating Unionists to some extent.  Specifically, you're  also incorrect to the point we are discussing here — from my earliest days on the old forum, I argued that Brexit would damage the Union.  I've always said that it damaged Unionism — not just in NI but in the wider UK.



I have always taken into consideration those Unionists who voted Leave in NI, but have always pointed out that their stance was illogical. You can't make sense out of something that fundamentally doesn't make sense. And even at that, I have never argued that the illogical stance on NI should prevent Brexit....I have argued simply that if the minority in NI who voted Brexit still really wanted it, it would mean massive compromises on the integrity of the UK.  



But there is only so long you can make that point to them. Once you have made it over and over, and they still despite all evidence and logic cannot see that Brexit damages the very thing they claim to want to protect, then all you can really say is "well we did warn you, and now here are the consequences".  Only now — when the dust of the Withdrawal Agreeement is settling — is it finally dawning on the DUP and the Unionist Leavers of NI that their support for Brexit was counterintuitive.  From their perspective, NI has  now been chucked under the bus .....and I'm really struggling to understand how you aren't grasping this basic elementary point.  



And finally, why in God's name are you asking me again why we should consider the views of the Leave minority in NI as regards the Withdrawal Agreement? I'm not saying that at all. Like I said above, they have already been considered. Brexit is happening like they voted for — and it is happening in the way they were warned that it would happen by any measure of logical thinking.  They didn't listen, they did not think logically, they got what they voted for and it wasn't what they expected even though the application of simple sense would have told them the inevitable truth.  But somehow you're interpreting this as me saying that that, what, the Withdrawal Agreement should now be amended to take their views into account?  If not, what are you on about? What are you saying that I'm implying ?



To be honest, I'm just completely losing track of the phantom arguments you're putting in my mouth.  It's great that you're putting arguments to the sword and all that, but also just unfortunate that they aren't arguments I'm making !

[Thomas]

Honestly .....I think this might be the finest example yet of you jumping head first into a post without thinking.



Where did I say we have to consider the DUP's feelings about the Withdrawal Agreemnt? As far as I'm concerned — they made their bed and were well warned that they were turkeys voting for Christmas when they opted to support Brexit. What I'm telling you is from the DUP's perspective and some other Unionists, NI is being thrown under the bus because they see it as compromising its place in the UK.  



Since when does explaining or applying the perspective of someone else's views mean that you yourself agree with it?!  



Christ man, you're bloody impossible sometimes!

You are merely deflecting now as ever.



When Gerry said this..

 That's not what the UK is doing, throwing NI under the bus.

and i reply with this clear point to him...

So gerry you say the uk is throwing the 6 counties under a bus , and heres doggy only the other day saying the 6 counties is getting what he has argued for and how he feels entirely vindicated.

and you continue with the same theme..

Well, I would have thought that a guy who proclaims himself knowledgeable on Northern Ireland would understand that one's interpretation of NI's treatment under the Withdrawal Agreement would hinge heavily on their feelings of being a Unionist or otherwise. NI has indeed been chucked under the bus from the perspective of the DUP (who were the only NI party afforded any input on the Brexit negotiations) and many other unionist / loyalist people.

There is clearly no lack of understanding from me .There is no lack of understanding your post . Clearly you are merely doing your ususal , deflecting playing semantics and littering the thread with bullshit and innuendo when you are being put to the sword.



Lets recap once more.



You told us time and again not to listen to or take any notice of the DUP and unionists. Your whole argument rested previously around the fact



1. The majority of northern ireland  voted remain. No mention of taking into consideration at any stage the minority who didnt.



2. Respecting the good friday agreement. No mention of taking into consideration the minority who dont want to respect it.



3.You Gerry and the wider ireland/ northern ireland were happy with the deal the 6 counties were getting , you even went on to brag how you were entirely vindicated in what you had previously argued , no mention at any time of the minority in the 6 counties who disagreed with you.



So why the feck after all you have said , do we need to now consider a minority , unionist or otherwise , in the 6 counties who might not agree with the WA? , ( apart from it now being convenient to mention it for the purpose of this debate)



You are yet again doing nothing but throwing stuff in the the road to attempt to muddy the waters and complicate brexit. We both know it.



Feck all to do with some shitty interpretation of yours.

So perhaps while myself and Gerry discuss Brexit strategy,

Perhaps you should. So far , your english campaign has lost every step of the way , you have been routed , england is leaving , and even though northern ireland is getting a great deal by your own words , you arent happy with it and we have to consider everyones feelings in the process ::

explain to you why it's acceptable to say the WA is both a good deal for NI while simultaneously chucking NI under the bus

Quite clearly you are waffling more bullshit doggy. Northern ireland is getting a great deal , it s getting the best of both worlds ,and isnt in any way being chucked under a bus  .



So no its not acceptable to make two contradictory statements when the latter statement i picked you and yer pal up on goes against everything you have said and argued across two forums for the past year or more.



Its like me arguing for scottish indy , england agreeing we should split , then me saying you are chucking us under a bus , what about the minority of scottish unionists who dont want indy?



The brave new world where no one is allowed to lose and everyone has to be a winner ::

depending on which of the two main constitutional perspectives you're thinking about.

Bollocks. Gerry didnt say Unionists " were being chucked under a bus , and its clear nationalists are getting what they want along with the majority who voted remain.



He clearly said northern ireland is getting chucked under a bus which is demonstrably not true .



A long winded way conor of saying you are talking shite and have been caught out yet again.

[Conchúr]

You are the guy who sat on our old forum for the past year or so telling us that the DUP and unionists dont speak for northern ireland , we musnt listen to them , the uk government cant jump into bed with them and let arlene drag northern ireland out of the eu against the will of the northern irish people , and turn northern ireland back into the protestant statelet it once was by building walls around it from the rest of ireland.



Now that narrative is of no more use  , because by your own words northern ireland and the  majority who voted remain are getting what they want , you change stance and start crying the dup are being thrown under a bus and we have to consider their feelings ( to stop englands brexit)



You are a fraud conor.



I dont need to go onto slugger or any other site to pick apart the shite you write , you are another one who forgets the lies he writes previously .



Thats the trouble with liars conor , keeping up with the web of deceit they spin is a hard task. ::  8-)

Honestly .....I think this might be the finest example yet of you jumping head first into a post without thinking.



Where did I say we have to consider the DUP's feelings about the Withdrawal Agreemnt? As far as I'm concerned — they made their bed and were well warned that they were turkeys voting for Christmas when they opted to support Brexit. What I'm telling you is from the DUP's perspective and some other Unionists, NI is being thrown under the bus because they see it as compromising its place in the UK.  



Since when does explaining or applying the perspective of someone else's views mean that you yourself agree with it?!  



Christ man, you're bloody impossible sometimes!  So much energy (and time) gets pointlessly wasted in what could be interesting discussions when you seem to focus more on labeling me a fraud than you do actually reading and comprehending the content of the posts.

[Thomas]

Well, I would have thought that a guy who proclaims himself knowledgeable on Northern Ireland would understand that one's interpretation of NI's treatment under the Withdrawal Agreement would hinge heavily on their feelings of being a Unionist or otherwise. NI has indeed been chucked under the bus from the perspective of the DUP (who were the only NI party afforded any input on the Brexit negotiations) and many other unionist / loyalist people.

You are the guy who sat on our old forum for the past year or so telling us that the DUP and unionists dont speak for northern ireland , we musnt listen to them , the uk government cant jump into bed with them and let arlene drag northern ireland out of the eu against the will of the northern irish people , and turn northern ireland back into the protestant statelet it once was by building walls around it from the rest of ireland.



Now that narrative is of no more use  , because by your own words northern ireland and the  majority who voted remain are getting what they want , you change stance and start crying the dup are being thrown under a bus and we have to consider their feelings ( to stop englands brexit)



You are a fraud conor.



I dont need to go onto slugger or any other site to pick apart the shite you write , you are another one who forgets the lies he writes previously .



Thats the trouble with liars conor , keeping up with the web of deceit they spin is a hard task. ::  8-)

[Major Sinic]

The President of the EU has this week stated that all national symbols are to be banned from the European parliament .  Just in case anyone wondered where the little flags on the desks had gone .



Petty move to piss off the biggest soon to be departed party in the EU or federalism tightening its grip



https://www.infowars.com/eu-removes-national-flags-from-european-parliament-farage-says/">https://www.infowars.com/eu-removes-nat ... rage-says/">https://www.infowars.com/eu-removes-national-flags-from-european-parliament-farage-says/

While that interpretation, particularly in view of the timing, is plausible I suspect that it is but another step by the federalists towards their illusionary

nirvana of a European superstate.

[Conchúr]

So gerry you say the uk is throwing the 6 counties under a bus , and heres doggy only the other day saying the 6 counties is getting what he has argued for and how he feels entirely vindicated.









I think you two need to go away and have a wee word on your brexit strategy dont you instead of contradicting each other?

Well, I would have thought that a guy who proclaims himself knowledgeable on Northern Ireland would understand that one's interpretation of NI's treatment under the Withdrawal Agreement would hinge heavily on their feelings of being a Unionist or otherwise. NI has indeed been chucked under the bus from the perspective of the DUP (who were the only NI party afforded any input on the Brexit negotiations) and many other unionist / loyalist people.



So perhaps while myself and Gerry discuss Brexit strategy, maybe you can go ask a kind soul on Slugger to explain to you why it's acceptable to say the WA is both a good deal for NI while simultaneously chucking NI under the bus — depending on which of the two main constitutional perspectives you're thinking about.

[Conchúr]

I suggest you watch the Hunger Games.



It's a socialist idea and we all know socialism doesn't work because the big fish grow tired of feeding the little fish.



As you are a little fish, of course you think it is a great idea. You might think you're in with the bigger fish now that you are at neutrality, but you're still shitting your self that the big fish next to you feed off is swimming off into the sunset.



I'm sure Gerry has great ideas as to who to sell all your beef to.

Ah yeah, the EU is socialist yet for some reason Leavers also say that Brexit was a kick in the teeth of the Establishment — the same Establishment who despised the socialism of Jeremy Corbyn.  What about all the Labour "Lexiteers" who sought a Leftist  break from the EU on the basis that they felt the EU stifled socialism?  Remember El Jefe used to argue with me on here that the EU would prevent Corbyn from implementing his policies if he won power?



Honestly Nick, your belief that the EU is a socialist project is a strange one. It's not only driven by capitalism, it has actually expanded capitalism into the old Communist sphere of influence in Eastern Europe. Your argument just does not make sense to me at all.



As for Ireland, we have always been a little fish — but a resilient one.  We have always been used to being modest and underestimated, but we have forged a place for ourselves in the world and we keep on swimming.

[Conchúr]

Oh dear Gerry not long ago you were telling us "we(ireland that is) are the eu and the eu is us" and how much better it is than when the Irish republic was part of the UK because now you have an equal say as much as the bigger countries,so which is it?

Ireland has equal say on a limited amount of matters, but I don't think one could ever realistically say that overall it has an equal say in the EU.  But this is a nuanced matter.



I hear people say a lot that the EU is bad because France, Germany and [previously] the UK dominate and whatever they say goes. Now, that actually isn't strictly true but nobody denies they were the three dominant powers in the Union. But this has been the case for an era, and long before the EU ever existed.  So yeah, people are great at saying these countries dominated the EU....but nobody ever seems able to explain how — without the EU — this triumvirate of countries would have been any less dominant.



The effect of the EU has been to provide a table for these three nations, along with Europe's medium to small powers, where they can balance out their interests in a way which by and large works in the interests of the continent as a whole. It provides a diplomatic counterweight to the previously self-defeating divergence in a continent which has a geopolitical makeup unlike any other part of the world.



So no, Ireland doesn't really have equal say in the EU — but it still has a say and still gets to assert its view.  The alternative is having no say at all.

[Nick]

One problem was in December the Liar was in NI telling everyone that there would be no border checks in NI (Lie) there would be no paperwork for goods travelling from NI-UK-NI (lie) staying in a single UK CU (lie) as NI will be staying in the EU CU and will be complying there. It hasn't been widely reported but when the full impact of Brexit is know by the NI hardcore unionists, they won't be much pleased.

But his deal is best for NI economy so that is one benefit.

This is the best deal the island of Ireland could wish for.  NI and SI get unfettered access to GB and the EU, what's your problem?

Oh no, the Protestants and Catholic's might have to agree on something and be civil to each other. Well whoop'ty fookin do.  



 :shrg:

[Nick]

One of the great ironies of Brexit is that, by simple virtue of leaving the EU, Brexiteers have proven that the "EU federal state" argument is untrue. The exercise of Brexit proves that the substance of sovereignty has always been vested ultimately in the member states — all of them voluntary members who can voluntarily exercise their right to leave as formalised in the Lisbon Treaty.



In any case, this is a non-story.  If this is the kind of thing Farage and his pals get worked up over .....then it isn't much surprise that Brexiteers never found the time to ehhh make a plan for Brexit.

I suggest you watch the Hunger Games.



It's a socialist idea and we all know socialism doesn't work because the big fish grow tired of feeding the little fish.



As you are a little fish, of course you think it is a great idea. You might think you're in with the bigger fish now that you are at neutrality, but you're still shitting your self that the big fish next to you feed off is swimming off into the sunset.



I'm sure Gerry has great ideas as to who to sell all your beef to.