Hepatitis is definitely nothing to do with mass vaccination, so keep schtum.

[Scott777]

But I'm content to accept information from ethical medical researchers and those people who administer treatments, in the belief that they do not collude with money men and/or politicians in a world-wide conspiracy to do harm.

There is good evidence that medical professionals are influenced by money, and do not tell the truth.  The common retort, which is presumptuous and fake, is that it's a conspiracy.  Being influenced by money is not a conspiracy.

I have witnessed it.  I have seen covert footage of 'vaccinators' giving demonstrably false info on the vaccines, prior to vaccination.  One vaccinator, a pharmacist, said the info he provided to the patient was just what he was told to say by his bosses (I assume the NHS).  I doubt that is true, I suspect he knew it was false info, but even if he didn't know, it does not meet the basic standard of ethical practice, to pass info to a patient, which they haven't verified as true.  That's because a medical treatment MUST be given with informed consent, based on accurate info.

[patman post]

Seems to me that there's only one poster on this thread who can bring any information and knowledge on this topic, other than copy-and-paste posts to support pre-conceptions — and I include myself among the unknowing.

But I'm content to accept information from ethical medical researchers and those people who administer treatments, in the belief that they do not collude with money men and/or politicians in a world-wide conspiracy to do harm.

Admittedly, we do have to beware of occasional rogue medics like the discredited Andrew Wakefield, and hordes of misinformation peddlers, like a couple who even make it on to this sparsely populated forum. But that's life...

[johnofgwent]

You mention, for example, key marker enzymes being different in 'alcohol hepatitis', (aspartate aminotransferase (AST) being moderately elevated).  However, with alcohol abuse, you can also cause Cirrhosis of the liver, which is obviously not hepatitis, but also causes elevated AST, so you would not know if it's hepatitis that caused it, or Cirrhosis.  Clearly it's complicated, and anyway, only a side point from the post.  Not really game set and match, although the info is appreciated.

Cirrhosis has a quite separate physiology which again is fairly easily detected from assay of certain chemicals and enzymes in a blood sample. 

Yes it is complicated. It's why it took me three years to gain a basic understanding and three more to become a fairly competent researcher. Which was rewarded by a P45 from Maggie although to be fair much of what I learned came in handy when thinking up innovative ways to kill people which brought in a much higher annual salary.

[Scott777]

One more for you

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK554549/

I warn you now, this is not hepatitis for dummies

This on line publication from the American NIH defines the various types of hepatitis and for the seven, yes SEVEN these days separate viral carriers it specifies exactly what the causative organism is, where it originates and how it enters the victim.

And one for Scott

The physiology of Hepatitis G is markedly different to the other six in that the damage done to the cytoplasm causes a markedly different release of two key marker enzymes than the others.

You wanted me to prove a different morphology?

I've found evidence of a distinct visible market structure where alcohol abuse is a causative factor and this last shows markedly different physiological damage in one of the seven virus categories which as you will note from careful scrutiny of the NIH article are separate in all sorts of ways.

Game Set And Match as far as your challenge goes.

In my world of real medicine anyway.

You mention, for example, key marker enzymes being different in 'alcohol hepatitis', (aspartate aminotransferase (AST) being moderately elevated).  However, with alcohol abuse, you can also cause Cirrhosis of the liver, which is obviously not hepatitis, but also causes elevated AST, so you would not know if it's hepatitis that caused it, or Cirrhosis.  Clearly it's complicated, and anyway, only a side point from the post.  Not really game set and match, although the info is appreciated.

[johnofgwent]

One more for you

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK554549/

I warn you now, this is not hepatitis for dummies

This on line publication from the American NIH defines the various types of hepatitis and for the seven, yes SEVEN these days separate viral carriers it specifies exactly what the causative organism is, where it originates and how it enters the victim.

And one for Scott

The physiology of Hepatitis G is markedly different to the other six in that the damage done to the cytoplasm causes a markedly different release of two key marker enzymes than the others.

You wanted me to prove a different morphology?

I've found evidence of a distinct visible market structure where alcohol abuse is a causative factor and this last shows markedly different physiological damage in one of the seven virus categories which as you will note from careful scrutiny of the NIH article are separate in all sorts of ways.

Game Set And Match as far as your challenge goes.

In my world of real medicine anyway.

[johnofgwent]

Give up?  All you have to do is describe a distinct physiological difference.

You might live to eat your words accompanied by a plate of liver and onions.

Here's a morphological difference for you
Mallory Bodies

Inflammation of the liver is not only caused by viruses. In the case where the liver inflammation is a result of alcohol abuse, the hepatocyte (liver cell) cytoplasm (cell contents) release specific enzymes into the blood called transaminases, and the cytoplasm of biopsied cells reveals 
broken intracellular filaments called Mallory Bodies.

The serum markers are specific for the damage caused by alcohol abuse ....

So there's an example of a specific morphology particular to a specific cause of inflammation of the liver...

Will I find more if I keep digging back in my ancient notes of a time when I thought a bright career awaited ? Who knows.

But it's clear I've forgotten a few things in the past 40 years.....

[Scott777]

🙄. Yes we are talking about types.  Hep A is caused by ingesting dirty food or water, normally when sewage enters a water system. It is not normally fatal. Hep B is transmitted by blood, sex is one way of transmitting it. This type can be really serious. PP did post a list of the types to which I alluded.

They are different viruses.

The hepatitis in question, as per the OP, is a disease, not a virus.  You may be talking about types, but yet you only describe a distinct difference in viruses.  You mention one disease is normally more serious than another.  That means, sometimes, they can be the same.  So again, what is a distinct difference in the disease?

[Scott777]

I'm giving up.

Scott clearly needs to believe these diseases cannot be clinically distinguished by morphology physiology or biochemistry in order they be traced to a causal organism in order for the fantasy to continue.

I know enough of the reality to know different by the tests of 1980s medicine. I'm reasonably certain my nephew and his lab could do much better

Give up?  All you have to do is describe a distinct physiological difference.

[johnofgwent]

🙄. Yes we are talking about types.  Hep A is caused by ingesting dirty food or water, normally when sewage enters a water system. It is not normally fatal. Hep B is transmitted by blood, sex is one way of transmitting it. This type can be really serious. PP did post a list of the types to which I alluded.

They are different viruses.

I'm giving up.

Scott clearly needs to believe these diseases cannot be clinically distinguished by morphology physiology or biochemistry in order they be traced to a causal organism in order for the fantasy to continue.

I know enough of the reality to know different by the tests of 1980s medicine. I'm reasonably certain my nephew and his lab could do much better 

[johnofgwent]

We are not talking about a type.

A headache can be caused by many things, sex, heat, loud music, a punch in the head.  But I don't think these are different types of headache.  You wouldn't say: I got a sex headache today.  🤣

You've never met Moira have you ........

[Nick]

We are not talking about a type.

A headache can be caused by many things, sex, heat, loud music, a punch in the head.  But I don't think these are different types of headache.  You wouldn't say: I got a sex headache today.  🤣

🙄. Yes we are talking about types.  Hep A is caused by ingesting dirty food or water, normally when sewage enters a water system. It is not normally fatal. Hep B is transmitted by blood, sex is one way of transmitting it. This type can be really serious. PP did post a list of the types to which I alluded.

They are different viruses. 

[Scott777]

Why should I not discriminate between types of liver inflammation based upon the agents that cause them.
As you will note here
https://www.healthline.com/health/hepatitis#causes

The medical profession can distinguish between the five forms of liver inflammation and knows which form is attributable to which cause.

I suggest the discriminations provided in your link are actually discriminating between the causes.  To say there are different types of disease, you would expect a description of the differences, yet there is no distinct difference given.  There is no meaningful or practical value to distinguish between things, just based on what causes them.  As I say in my analogy, a headache due to hot weather is not meaningfully different from a headache due to going on a rollercoaster.  However, if one headache is more severe, then you might have different physiological results, but that might happen from either hot weather or a rollercoaster, depending on how much of it, rather than which one.

[johnofgwent]

Fair enough, John, so you are talking about viruses that cause hepatitis.  But you must not conflate the viruses with the disease.  You don't get inoculated against heart inflammation.

Why should I not discriminate between types of liver inflammation based upon the agents that cause them.
As you will note here
 https://www.healthline.com/health/hepatitis#causes 

The medical profession can distinguish between the five forms of liver inflammation and knows which form is attributable to which cause. 

It took me a while to find that link. The WHO site is fat more detailed and far more confusing.

I recall inventing assay kits that were capable of detecting liver diseases from marker chemicals in the bloodstream, which we used for our own research but the chemical companies paying our salaries, bonuses and lab equipment bills were quite keen on.

I'm pretty sure a doctor in the hospital that you rock up in can stick you with a needle take a few Cc's and send them to someone doing the job I first trained for who can actually do exactly what you say I should not.

Where are you trying to go with this ?? I fear you're going to tread on a loose plank and head straight to the basement .

[Scott777]

Fair enough, John, so you are talking about viruses that cause hepatitis.  But you must not conflate the viruses with the disease.  You don't get inoculated against heart inflammation.

*liver*

[Scott777]

I'm clever enough to have been innoculated against the one you get from drinking  unsafe water, the one you get from swimming in polluted water, and the one you get from sex with gay men.

That last one caused a few eyebrows at Sharm El Sheik.

Until we told the border guards I was a former medical researcher who converted blood from one group to another for battlefield use, and my colleagues similarly injected were the Medics that used my research ...

But that's only three variants. I've never heard d of the other two.

Fair enough, John, so you are talking about viruses that cause hepatitis.  But you must not conflate the viruses with the disease.  You don't get inoculated against heart inflammation.