Capital Punishment

[Wiggles]

You seem to have a very strange circle of people you know. (Seriously.)

If you bothered to actually read why they were freed there is no doubt they were innocent.

There are also other cases where "traces of explosives" found on people were nothing of the kind.  



Aromatic hydrocarbon residue found by swabbing peoples hands is NOT evidence of handling explosives, the same residue can come from handling a new pack of cards or a cannabis residue sweated out, and many other reasons.

They were released because the police corrupted the evidence. The little evidence they did legitimately did have was not solid, but that doesn't mean they were innocent. They were known members of the IRA, and in my opinion that was a hangable offence in it's self

[Major Sinic]

Dont forget though major should this have been the case , innocent people such as gerry conlon and his old dad giuseppe conlon , and the wider mcguire 7 and guildford four , would have been executed for crimes they didnt commit.



Many more could be mentioned , and what happened to those poor people was a travesty and a disgrace , of which had capital punishment been the sentence , there would have been no return. Instead after 16 years of wrongfull imprisonment , they were acquitted and released.

OK you make a very valid point. Certainly individuals found guilty of capital crimes for which they were, on appeal, subsequently found to have had an unsafe conviction is a strong argument against CP and would certainly apply with some historical IRA convictions. However looking forward I did emphasise that the death penalty should only be applied in certain circumstances when the proof was not only beyond any reasonable doubt, but beyond any doubt. Forensic science is so much stronger and reliable today than even fifteen years ago.



As a general interest observation and rather against my own beliefs and in support of your point, the topical series White House Farm has reignited questions regarding the guilt of Jeremey Bamber. At the time I was as convinced as most of his guilt, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that the police entirely mishandled the case and as a result the safety of the conviction is increasingly in doubt.

[papasmurf]

Congratulations to anyone on here that actually believe the Guildford 4 were innocent, because you are the only people I have ever come across that think it's the case.

You seem to have a very strange circle of people you know. (Seriously.)

If you bothered to actually read why they were freed there is no doubt they were innocent.

There are also other cases where "traces of explosives" found on people were nothing of the kind.  



Aromatic hydrocarbon residue found by swabbing peoples hands is NOT evidence of handling explosives, the same residue can come from handling a new pack of cards or a cannabis residue sweated out, and many other reasons.

[Wiggles]

mr bollocks talks bollocks as usual. ::

Congratulations to anyone on here that actually believe the Guildford 4 were innocent, because you are the only people I have ever come across that think it's the case. The police corrupted the evidence because they knew they were  guilty as hell. In actual fact, they were so certain they didn't pursue the case any further when the IRA terrorists were released from prison.

[Thomas]

Rubbish, I accept the police may have corrupted the evidence, but in both cases the accused were members of the IRA, and in both cases they were as guilty as fluck. Anyway, at that point in history all IRA members should have been executed regardless

mr bollocks talks bollocks as usual. ::

[johnofgwent]

I am a lifelong supporter of, and public vociferous campaigner for, the death penalty. I presume this is why i have never been called to jury duty.



But above all the other arguments, I would invite the snowflakes to argue against THIS one



my daughter is under a death sentence



the rapist and murderer who she testified against has vowed to kill her and everyone else whose testimony put him away when he gets out after his 34 year stint. which will be another 20 under the tories and about another three under labour.



the fact that a rope would rather reduce his chance of making good on that threat, which the police certainly took seriously enough to give her an **ARMED** guard during and for a while after the  trial, merely amplifies my position.

[cromwell]

Rubbish, I accept the police may have corrupted the evidence, but in both cases the accused were members of the IRA, and in both cases they were as guilty as fluck. Anyway, at that point in history all IRA members should have been executed regardless

The only rubbish here is usually what you post,you present no evidence whatsoever and in this case cannot.



When evidence is posted to refute your wild claims you dismiss it out of hand and tell us because you believe differently that is fact,well it isn't so either present your evidence to the contrary or cease your buffoonery.

[Conchúr]

Rubbish, I accept the police may have corrupted the evidence, but in both cases the accused were members of the IRA, and in both cases they were as guilty as fluck. Anyway, at that point in history all IRA members should have been executed regardless

You are saying that all of the Guildford Four and Maguire Seven were IRA members ? Basis ?

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

I'm against capital punishment although morally some murderers deserve to die for what they've done.  My main reason for this is the risk of sending an innocent person to their death.  Some say: "but that would hardly ever happen", others say: "if they're found guilty, that means they are guilty, end of" while yet others say: "frankly, I'm more worried about guilty people going free". None of those are good enough reasons for the state to risk sending an innocent person to their death.

[Wiggles]

Dont forget though major should this have been the case , innocent people such as gerry conlon and his old dad giuseppe conlon , and the wider mcguire 7 and guildford four , would have been executed for crimes they didnt commit.



Many more could be mentioned , and what happened to those poor people was a travesty and a disgrace , of which had capital punishment been the sentence , there would have been no return. Instead after 16 years of wrongfull imprisonment , they were acquitted and released.

Rubbish, I accept the police may have corrupted the evidence, but in both cases the accused were members of the IRA, and in both cases they were as guilty as fluck. Anyway, at that point in history all IRA members should have been executed regardless

[cromwell]

Dont forget though major should this have been the case , innocent people such as gerry conlon and his old dad giuseppe conlon , and the wider mcguire 7 and guildford four , would have been executed for crimes they didnt commit.



Many more could be mentioned , and what happened to those poor people was a travesty and a disgrace , of which had capital punishment been the sentence , there would have been no return. Instead after 16 years of wrongfull imprisonment , they were acquitted and released.

Yes they would and poor old Guiseppe didn't live long enough to see freedom,there has always been a great resistance to ever admit they got it wrong by the establishment.



It was only by some dogged determination by certain journos that opened a lot of this up,and yeah journos do get slagged off but happily some don't work for the beano ermm I mean Sun.

[Thomas]

 In my view every convicted IRA murderer should have been executed.

Dont forget though major should this have been the case , innocent people such as gerry conlon and his old dad giuseppe conlon , and the wider mcguire 7 and guildford four , would have been executed for crimes they didnt commit.



Many more could be mentioned , and what happened to those poor people was a travesty and a disgrace , of which had capital punishment been the sentence , there would have been no return. Instead after 16 years of wrongfull imprisonment , they were acquitted and released.

[Thomas]

Having to spend £1.6 million on keeping a nasty murderer behind bars for 40 years does not seem a huge price to pay.

As america shows though barry , in many us states the death penalty costs more to administer than a life sentence.



I think we went over all this on the old forum in great detail many a time .



Apart from that , i think your post is mainly fair and pretty honest.

[cromwell]

Anyway Wiggly you told me originally that because of dna there was miniscule chance of someone being guilty when innocent,I posted a link which proved otherwise which you ignored,any answers?

[Borchester]

 How the bleeding hell can a terrorist be a good person?

If they are on our side whereupon they are freedom fighters.