And they are off! Indy2 in October 2023 !

[Streetwalker]

That same truism then can apply to scotland withdrawing from any treaty it likes? Or is this rule only reserved for british exceptionalism?

You are all over the place streetwalker. Why did you earlier say this to me then..?

That was in reference to the Empire not the Union , that you cant leave something that your country more than helped create . You refered to all the countries that have left the Empire , the British Empire , thats England and Scotlands Empire .

Which doesnt exist anymore so you cant leave what doesnt exist anyway . 

Scotland of course (well some of it ) is looking to leave  the union , a different matter altogether . 

[Nick]

Nothing to do with anyones ego except yours nick. The fact that "some" people actually believed the british empire was still alive and kicking and that you ruled the world via the queen and commonwelth is incredible , and to me shows part of the delusion that drove brexit. You wonder why some folk mock brexiters and repeatedly ask when is the empire returning?

Thank fack toots had the honesty and integrity to politely correct you. The fact she did it in such a manner is even more embarressing.

Why am i not surprised though nick. ? You the guy who once told me glasgow wasnt in Britian getting muddled up over the  commonwealth is par for the course.

Nothing to do with me or anyones else thinking they are "great". I come on these forums , and listen to some pish being talked about by people who dont know what the commonwealth is , the role of a monarch , others telling me northern ireland isnt part of the uk , or scotland a region of england. Those same people then can go on to explicitly tell me about trade deals , or constitutional law when they dont even understand the basics of their own so called "country".

We all get things wrong , but at the very elast before making such grandiose statements you should at least research the basics .Humanity has never had so much information at its fingertips , so there is no excuse for not doing a five second google search.

I incorrectly assumed the 54 countries still part of the Commonwealth had the Queen as their head, therefore technically came under U.K. rule. My mistake. 

Other than that it's the usual obfuscation from the man who harps back to posts from years ago about the makeup of the U.K. 
OK Tom, your turn. Explain the difference between Britain and Great Britain, GB being England, Scotland and Wales.

[johnofgwent]

The brexit referendum wasnt legal either ,it was advisory , but anyone who supports democracy knows it had to be implemented.

Former uk government secretary and Sec . of state for scotland michael moore said back in 2012 that the uk government wouldnt seek to bring a court case if the scottish government went ahead with a referendum.

We are simply re running the same tired old arguments from you british nationalists that we heard a decade and more ago.

No

You are comparing chalk and cheese.

As I am sure you know, on Brown's watch we had TWO Referenda, one on his utterly bollocks alternative vote  proposal to change the way we voted for MPs and if I recall another on extending the power of the Welsh assembly.

Both were given a resounding "f**k off" but one was "mandatory" and the other "advisory".

But both were initiated in the United Kingdom by a government body authorised by statute law to initiate them.

As you say, the BREXIT Referendum was set up as an ADVISORY one, which is why when its result was 52-48 in favour of what the labour party hated the idea of, and half the Tories were not keen on either, that well known supporter of democracy as long as the voters are black, David Lammy, stood up.and said f**k The Voters we don't have to listen to them.

Not the cleverest thing for an elected politician to say but he is black, and labour, and naturally thinks anyone not black and not labour should be at least disenfranchised, and if he had is way probably disembowelled.

And many black labour MPs think the first of those would be good too.

BUT The reality of the law is that Sturgeon has no authority in United Kingdom Law to call a referendum on this.

Because calling a referendum to destroy the Union is not a devolved matter.

You want to secede, unilaterally, start killing Englishmen. It worked for the Irish after all

[cromwell]

Mod Notice

Number of posts removed,I don't see anybody butted in but they made an observation.

A mod will decide what's on or off topic as per
The moderators will ultimately decide if something is appropriate or not.

And I have so


THAT IS THE END OF IT BECAUSE I REALLY DON'T WANT TO CLOSE THE THREAD.

Thanks.

[Thomas]

I am aware of that and am asking you politely not to involve me in your baiting of others.

im not baiting nick .im politely informing you

[T00ts]

I did nt say you were trying to embaress nick .i was pointing out im embaressed for him. .You did that for yourself when you intervened and felt obligated to correct him , so perhaps if you didnt want it discussed in the thread , you should have kept schtum.

I am aware of that and am asking you politely not to involve me in your baiting of others.

[Thomas]

The myth of Cameron's legal challenge to Salmond

Scottish Secretary Michael Moore says UK government would not challenge Salmond's referendum.


Does the Scottish government have the legal right to hold a referendum on independence? Alex Salmond and some constitutional lawyers insist it does, the UK government and some constitutional lawyers insist it does not.

The vote Salmond intends to hold in autumn 2014 would be an advisory one (the SNP concedes that it does not have the power to hold a binding referendum) designed to provide him with a clear mandate to negotiate for independence. But in his statement to the Commons yesterday, Michael Moore, the Secretary of State for Scotland, declared that even this would be legally questionable. So, assuming Salmond proceeds, would the UK government challenge him in the courts? Apparently not. Here's what Moore told Scotland Tonight yesterday evening.

Interviewer: The idea that it could be legally challenged, who's going to mount that challenge?

Michael Moore: Anybody could and I don't think that a decision of this magnitude about whether or not Scotland stays part of the most successful multi-nation state in the history of the world or goes its own separate way, I don't think that should be left



Interviewer: Would the UK government launch that challenge though?

Michael Moore: While there's a prospect that anybody could, it's not our intention to do that.

But as the blog Wings over Scotland asks, why would the UK government not challenge what it ostensibly believes is an illegal attempt to break up the Union? Moore's words will inevitably prompt questions about the government's true opinion of the legality of a Scottish-led referendum.


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2012/01/challenge-government-moore

[Thomas]

Don't be so harsh Thomas. We all make mistakes. I was in no way trying to embarrass anyone. Please don't use my comment to pick on others.

I did nt say you were trying to embaress nick .i was pointing out im embaressed for him.

Please don't use my comment to pick on others

.You did that for yourself when you intervened and felt obligated to correct him , so perhaps if you didnt want it discussed in the thread , you should have kept schtum.

[Thomas]

But if he does not allow it, it won't happen, and if it does, it won't be legal.

The brexit referendum wasnt legal either ,it was advisory , but anyone who supports democracy knows it had to be implemented.

Former uk government secretary and Sec . of state for scotland michael moore said back in 2012 that the uk government wouldnt seek to bring a court case if the scottish government went ahead with a referendum.

We are simply re running the same tired old arguments from you british nationalists that we heard a decade and more ago.

[T00ts]

Nothing to do with anyones ego except yours nick. The fact that "some" people actually believed the british empire was still alive and kicking and that you ruled the world via the queen and commonwelth is incredible , and to me shows part of the delusion that drove brexit. You wonder why some folk mock brexiters and repeatedly ask when is the empire returning?

Thank fack toots had the honesty and integrity to politely correct you. The fact she did it in such a manner is even more embarressing.

Why am i not surprised though nick. ? You the guy who once told me glasgow wasnt in Britian getting muddled up over the  commonwealth is par for the course.

Nothing to do with me or anyones else thinking they are "great". I come on these forums , and listen to some pish being talked about by people who dont know what the commonwealth is , the role of a monarch , others telling me northern ireland isnt part of the uk , or scotland a region of england. Those same people then can go on to explicitly tell me about trade deals , or constitutional law when they dont even understand the basics of their own so called "country".

We all get things wrong , but at the very elast before making such grandiose statements you should at least research the basics .Humanity has never had so much information at its fingertips , so there is no excuse for not doing a five second google search.

Don't be so harsh Thomas. We all make mistakes. I was in no way trying to embarrass anyone. Please don't use my comment to pick on others.

[Thomas]

But you thought you would mention it anyway just to tickle your ego.
I can only dream of being half as great as you think you are.

Nothing to do with anyones ego except yours nick. The fact that "some" people actually believed the british empire was still alive and kicking and that you ruled the world via the queen and commonwelth is incredible , and to me shows part of the delusion that drove brexit. You wonder why some folk mock brexiters and repeatedly ask when is the empire returning?

Thank fack toots had the honesty and integrity to politely correct you. The fact she did it in such a manner is even more embarressing.

Why am i not surprised though nick. ? You the guy who once told me glasgow wasnt in Britian getting muddled up over the  commonwealth is par for the course.

Nothing to do with me or anyones else thinking they are "great". I come on these forums , and listen to some pish being talked about by people who dont know what the commonwealth is , the role of a monarch , others telling me northern ireland isnt part of the uk , or scotland a region of england. Those same people then can go on to explicitly tell me about trade deals , or constitutional law when they dont even understand the basics of their own so called "country".

We all get things wrong , but at the very elast before making such grandiose statements you should at least research the basics .Humanity has never had so much information at its fingertips , so there is no excuse for not doing a five second google search.

[Thomas]

Its not hypocracy when I totally agree you can have a vote anytime you like . I was just clarifying that the UK can withdraw from any treaty /agreement /protocol that it likes .

When it likes

That same truism then can apply to scotland withdrawing from any treaty it likes? Or is this rule only reserved for british exceptionalism?

Its not hypocracy when I totally agree you can have a vote anytime you like

You are all over the place streetwalker. Why did you earlier say this to me then..?

You can't leave what in many repects you where front and centre in creating

[Nick]

aye i saw toots had corrected your fatuous post.

But you thought you would mention it anyway just to tickle your ego. 
I can only dream of being half as great as you think you are. 

[Streetwalker]

Are you saying a nation that freely entered into a treaty of union doesnt have the right to withdraw  , 6 years after you championed your own country having that same right in withdrawing from the european one? The hypocrisy and double standards are breathtaking.

The first time the treaty of union was challenged was a mere few years after it was initially signed.

I would say the timescale can be any time .

How democracy works ,  you elect a party that gains a majority to enforce your views. The normal timespan is every 4 /5 years , and then you vote again. That what we have done.  Democracy itself is a neverendum .

Its not hypocracy when I totally agree you can have a vote anytime you like . I was just clarifying that the UK can withdraw from any treaty /agreement /protocol that it likes .

When it likes 

[Thomas]

Yes we covered that previously.

aye i saw toots had corrected your fatuous post.