Privatisation

[srb7677]

How dare you? My jokes limp along well

There is a reason why you never made it into politics. Not a big enough comedian.

[cromwell]

It was meant to be. Tongue-in-cheek. A bit like one of Cromwell's lame jokes. Mine was lamer.

How dare you? My jokes limp along well 

[Sampanviking]

Does anybody still think the utilities going private was a good idea?

No and some were worse than others.
I never agreed with water privatisation and many of the others I was dubious about, even If I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

Its not black and white though. Some privatisations could have worked if there had been real robust regulation to protect the consumers interests.
In the event regulation has been little more than a toothless fig leaf (sorry) and privatisation really has been a spivs charter.

My position now, is that utilites and infrastructure should be there to enable enterprise and social mobility and not to be a profit center in there own right.
The pendulum in this country has gone way to far and greed allowed to triumph over all other considerations, with phrases such as "trickle down" and "a rising tide floats all boats" being shown to be utterly empty slogans.
Time to start a major correction, but good knows from where as the only alternative on offer to "more of the same" is raving woke lunacy.
In fact if I was an Oligarch looking to protect my wealth position, I could do no better than to create the current left and center, if I tried!

[johnofgwent]

That is a ridiculous comparison. We the people might well own Boris's RAF plane, but it's purpose is for government use. When we the people owned the utilities and energy companies their purpose was to serve us, supplying is with water and energy.

Besides, governmental planes have not been sold off to wealthy shysters who got their money back in the form of tax cuts paid for by the proceeds of the sale. That did happen with gas, electricity and water. And we have all been fleeced to maximise profits ever since.

Slightly more to the point, at least with water is the fact the state's various water boards, headed up by civil servants paid roughly the salary of a bank manager in a city outside London with a population less than the top ten cities at the time, had the task of delivering potable water as a utility essential to life to the homes of Britain's people.

The privatised companies sought to monetise their operations to finance the vast increase in salaries of the new management, and focussed on the ways they could diversify to screw money out of all sorts. I was freelancing for one of them at the time. It gave not a F@@@ about water quality, just how much it could screw the "consumer" of its product. 

The newly privatised water companies "ensured" the problem of water shortages seen in 1976 did not occur again. They did this by draining the water table so hard rivers turned to mud and then to dust.

[patman post]

Looks like Macron likes my ideas and is going to nationalise EDF.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/07/06/ftse-100-markets-live-news-national-insurance-tax-oil-recession/

EDF is already 85% state-owned.

Buying out the remaining shareholdings could be a way of shielding private investors from having to support the state-imposed price caps...

PS — France also has a large state-owned industrial sector eg, Renault Thomson, Pechiney, Rhine-Poulenc, etc. State-ownership, intervention and regulation underpin French business...

[patman post]

Where do you think government funds come from? The British people, that's who. If the state owns something, we own it.

Not a credible answer.

Just because you buy a bag of spuds from the supermarket and contribute to the profits of the retailer, distributor, grower, bag maker, etc, doesn't mean you own any part of them.

Duties, levies and taxes are what the UK raises to pay for outsourcing the running of the country to an elected administration. If a majority don't like the management, it can be voted out. 

It's all simple and principled logic — a far cry from the socialist ideals of lopping off the best of everything to distribute to the underperforming in order to get the support of the the masses at the ballot box...

[Barry]

That is a ridiculous comparison. 

It was meant to be. Tongue-in-cheek. A bit like one of Cromwell's lame jokes. Mine was lamer.

[srb7677]

I'm going for a flight on Boris's RAF plane ZZ336 tomorrow, then. Madeira, perhaps.

That is a ridiculous comparison. We the people might well own Boris's RAF plane, but it's purpose is for government use. When we the people owned the utilities and energy companies their purpose was to serve us, supplying is with water and energy.

Besides, governmental planes have not been sold off to wealthy shysters who got their money back in the form of tax cuts paid for by the proceeds of the sale. That did happen with gas, electricity and water. And we have all been fleeced to maximise profits ever since.

[Barry]

Looks like Macron likes my ideas and is going to nationalise EDF.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/07/06/ftse-100-markets-live-news-national-insurance-tax-oil-recession/

Excerpt:

The French Government has set out plans to nationalise struggling nuclear giant EDF as it tries to weather the escalating energy crisis.

Elisabeth Borne, French Prime Minister, said: "The climate emergency required strong, radical decisions. We need to have full control of the production and our energy future. We must ensure our sovereignty faced with the consequences of the war and the colossal challenges ahead.

"That is why I confirm today the intention of the state to hold 100pc of the capital of EDF."

Shares in the energy giant jumped as much as 9pc following the announcement.

[johnofgwent]

Does anybody still think the utilities going private was a good idea?

All right. I'm going right back to the OP.

Having been dragged in to work the software for a number of utilities ...

I sat in a meeting at British Telecom Martlesham Heath now renamed AdAstra Park as the old RAF station was Douglas Bader's squadron Home. Ian Vallance's second in command opened his chat with "does anyone recall the days when we had subscribers..."

I also sat in a meeting where the MD of Welsh Water declared the need to push for mandatory installation of quantum meters because the water company was prevented by law from cutting off a supply because in law a hereditament was legally unfit for human habitation if the water supply was cut off, causing a legal duty to re-home the occupants to fall.on the council who then charged the water company for the inconvenience, whereas a quantum meter not kept filled up reduced the water throughout tons trickle but allowed Welsh waters lawyers to declare this a customer decision not to pay, and the trickle meant the supply was not actually totally cut off so the property was not legally unfit for habitation.

And there we have the way privatisation has gone.

Ive worked on gas and electric privatisation and it's all driven by utter greed.

[Barry]

Where do you think government funds come from? The British people, that's who. If the state owns something, we own it.

I'm going for a flight on Boris's RAF plane ZZ336 tomorrow, then. Madeira, perhaps.

[cromwell]

Where do you think government funds come from? The British people, that's who. If the state owns something, we own it.

Is the correct answer

[srb7677]

Can't say I've much experience of nationalised utilities, but I've never heard much good about British Rail or British Telecom/Post Office Telephones, or experiences of regular power outages.

It sounds like Socialist claptrap to bend reality and suggest that nationalised activities, bought and paid for out of government funds, are actually owned by "the people" as though the UK was some giant commune or kibbutz...

Where do you think government funds come from? The British people, that's who. If the state owns something, we own it.

[Borchester]

I recall actually making about a tenner on British Gas.

I, on the other hand.....

I should have applied for paper share certificates rather than electronic ones. That way they might have been of some use

[patman post]

It was the ultimate con. Something we all already owned was sold mostly to the wealthy dudes or soon ended up in their hands. And the proceeds from the sale of what was ours were mostly handed out to the rich dudes who bought it all, in the form of tax cuts.

So what was ours ended up sold to the wealthy few, the proceeds of which sale were handed mostly to those same wealthy few. Who thus got most of their money back whilst the rest of us got ripped off.

If you sold your car and the proceeds of the sale were handed to the guy who bought it, you'd feel well and truly screwed over, wouldn't you? Well that's what privatisation of publicly owned assets did.

Can't say I've much experience of nationalised utilities, but I've never heard much good about British Rail or British Telecom/Post Office Telephones, or experiences of regular power outages.

It sounds like Socialist claptrap to bend reality and suggest that nationalised activities, bought and paid for out of government funds, are actually owned by "the people" as though the UK was some giant commune or kibbutz...