Circus culture

[cromwell]

You don't treat mental illness with surgery on gonads. You treat mental illness with talking therapies, with anti-psychotics and on rare occasions, brain surgery.

I don't know enough about modern brain surgery but I do know in the past it was used wrongly on people with problems as was electric shock treatment.

I am not in favour of any therapy's or drugs used on people till they reach the age  of 18 but they should be supported till that age,on reaching that age they should be made aware of all the the pros and cons of gender change in a slow process,if they then still wish to go ahead then good luck to them.

[Sampanviking]

Surprised by attitudes expressed on this thread. This is one of our dearest and most necessary "values", you know, the ones we need to defend against....... well...whoever.....

[T00ts]

I think this is going away from the OP. My comment was aimed not at those who felt from early years that something was not right. My concern is for those who are suddenly confronted with making a public (with classmates) decision of how they want to be addressed by teachers. I am not convinced that it is a question that most kids are able to make and if it then leads to precipitous actions of name changing, dress change and potential hormone blockers then a lot more discussion - including their parents - needs to be done. 

[srb7677]

Totally missing the point about trans surgery being GBH.

Not if it is consensual and the individual undergoing the procedure is not being damaged health-wise.

You are just attempting to intellectualise your own bigotry here.

[Nick]

You don't treat mental illness with surgery on gonads. You treat mental illness with talking therapies, with anti-psychotics and on rare occasions, brain surgery.

I believe you treat psychological issues in the way best for the patient. Again, these people don't just wake up one day and think they are in the wrong body, it's a long standing thing.
I assume you feel male: male views, male thoughts, male sex drive? If from a very early age you felt all the opposite feelings, do you think a bit of a counseling session would sort you out? No.

[Barry]

I think you're missing the point Barry. These people don't have their bits operated on for a laugh cause they fancy doing willycopters or something. In most cases they have had[highlight] serious psychological issues [/highlight]their whole lives about being born the wrong sex. They can't obviously change their sex, that is a DNA thing but it is up to them if they want to identify as and physically change their gender. This is totally separate from the competitive issue's around a TG woman competing in the Olympics.

You don't treat mental illness with surgery on gonads. You treat mental illness with talking therapies, with anti-psychotics and on rare occasions, brain surgery.

[Nick]

Totally missing the point about trans surgery being GBH.

I think you're missing the point Barry. These people don't have their bits operated on for a laugh cause they fancy doing willycopters or something. In most cases they have had serious psychological issues their whole lives about being born the wrong sex. They can't obviously change their sex, that is a DNA thing but it is up to them if they want to identify as and physically change their gender. This is totally separate from the competitive issue's around a TG woman competing in the Olympics.

[Barry]

It is worth noting at this point that some women have their breasts removed to be replaced by false ones for purely cosmetic reasons. Much more seriously, due to a genetic predisposition for breast cancer, some women choose to have their breasts removed and replaced by artificial ones as a iife-saving precaution.

Such procedures for whatever reason ought to be fine if consented to by consenting adults.

Totally missing the point about trans surgery being GBH.

[srb7677]

Remove of breasts, testicles, penis are all in that category.

It is worth noting at this point that some women have their breasts removed to be replaced by false ones for purely cosmetic reasons. Much more seriously, due to a genetic predisposition for breast cancer, some women choose to have their breasts removed and replaced by artificial ones as a iife-saving precaution.

Such procedures for whatever reason ought to be fine if consented to by consenting adults.

[srb7677]

I dunno Steve but should they start pre puberty?
https://oneofus.eu/uk-regret-after-sex-change-an-increasing-number-of-cases/

I dont think they should, no. Certainly nothing irreversible should be done below the age of 18 in my view.

[cromwell]

It is my understanding that gender alteration surgery is not undertaken until someone reaches adulthood, so nothing irreversible until someone is an adult. Correct me with examples if I am wrong. If I am right your fears are clearly baseless.

I certainly believe that no irreversible processes should be undertaken until someone is at least 18 years old.

I dunno Steve but should they start pre puberty?
https://oneofus.eu/uk-regret-after-sex-change-an-increasing-number-of-cases/

[Barry]

I certainly believe that no irreversible processes should be undertaken until someone is at least 18 years old.

I believe that no transexual "processes", that is, surgery, should not be undertaken ever in the UK. This is based in law, which says that no person can consent to Grievous Bodily Harm. Remove of breasts, testicles, penis are all in that category.

How the surgeons get away with it, I do not know.

[srb7677]

Take a child from about 11 upwards. Does anyone remember that? They are at their most impressionable in that they are turning away to some degree from their parental influences in readiness for the adult world. My complaint about the current trend is that it is not the right time to make them test who they are. They don't know. They are testing things out. Where it all falls down is that for it to suddenly become normalised before they reach an age of true discernment, at a time when most kids are attracted to all sorts of others for no other reason than they admire them or some attributes they portray is so confusing and actually a misrepresentation. 

I am a woman who enjoys normally male pursuits. I love tools, I like DIY but would I be so confident that I am all woman if the current 'education' had been the fashion when I was that age?
I just wonder. Kids naturally want to fit in with their mates. Just how careful are the educators that nothing irreversible is attempted whereby they cannot get back to where they might suddenly realise they belong?

I understand that there has been a change in the law to allow all those having undergone gender interventions to be subject of a study to find out exactly what is being done and the outcomes.

It is my understanding that gender alteration surgery is not undertaken until someone reaches adulthood, so nothing irreversible until someone is an adult. Correct me with examples if I am wrong. If I am right your fears are clearly baseless.

I certainly believe that no irreversible processes should be undertaken until someone is at least 18 years old.

[T00ts]

Not sure I understand what you're stating as your fears.

Do you believe that the children of same sex couples are more likely to be attracted to partners of the same sex? Are same sex couples likely to coerce their children into questioning their own sexuality? And more to the point, do you believe LGBTQ+ are more likely to be child abusers?

An aptitude for DIY or cooking or fashion shouldn't automatically class the person blessed with them as of questionable gender or sex. Similarly, highly physical sporting prowess shouldn't either.

Apologies if I've misunderstood your post, but if I've understood it correctly, I think you're worrying about the wrong things...

I am worried that teachers/education system who children are expected to respect are questioning impressionable children on how they identify. I maintain that it is an unfair expectation that could lead to a false decision. With the existent pressure to start hormone changing drugs preferably before puberty it is wrong on so many levels. 

[patman post]

Take a child from about 11 upwards. Does anyone remember that? They are at their most impressionable in that they are turning away to some degree from their parental influences in readiness for the adult world. My complaint about the current trend is that it is not the right time to make them test who they are. They don't know. They are testing things out. Where it all falls down is that for it to suddenly become normalised before they reach an age of true discernment, at a time when most kids are attracted to all sorts of others for no other reason than they admire them or some attributes they portray is so confusing and actually a misrepresentation. 

I am a woman who enjoys normally male pursuits. I love tools, I like DIY but would I be so confident that I am all woman if the current 'education' had been the fashion when I was that age?
I just wonder. Kids naturally want to fit in with their mates. Just how careful are the educators that nothing irreversible is attempted whereby they cannot get back to where they might suddenly realise they belong?

I understand that there has been a change in the law to allow all those having undergone gender interventions to be subject of a study to find out exactly what is being done and the outcomes.

Not sure I understand what you're stating as your fears. 

Do you believe that the children of same sex couples are more likely to be attracted to partners of the same sex? Are same sex couples likely to coerce their children into questioning their own sexuality? And more to the point, do you believe LGBTQ+ are more likely to be child abusers?

An aptitude for DIY or cooking or fashion shouldn't automatically class the person blessed with them as of questionable gender or sex. Similarly, highly physical sporting prowess shouldn't either.

Apologies if I've misunderstood your post, but if I've understood it correctly, I think you're worrying about the wrong things...