The biggest we told you so in History

[Streetwalker]

But Germany only has 1/27th of a vote SW. 😂

I wonder what Gerry will say when he realises Ireland only actually have  1/54th 

[Nick]

I appreciate this is only at the debating stage Gerry but it seems some are taking it more seriously than others .On Tuesday the Hungarian parliament voted for no more integration with the EU and the abolition of the EU parliament which they see as a lop sided voting chamber in favour of one or two nations . (You can guess which from Nicks post)

Even when we were involved UK MEP's recognised that when we did oppose legistlation we invariably lost ,possibly because all the UKIP MEP's were down the Grand Place having an extended lunch but more likely that the Germans had got enough members on side and they knew it .

But Germany only has 1/27th of a vote SW. 😂 

[Streetwalker]

Is this like Turkey is joining the EU or the bendy banana law. For argument sake lets entertain this. If Germany wanted this they could use the EU Commission/Council to initiate the legislative changes to bring about the changes. They would have one vote out of 27, and would require at least a majority possibly countries would have a veto, I'm not sure. But tell me how Germany would have any more say, than say Slovenia, in bring about this change ?
With the way Scholz is handling the Ukraine situation, he would want to hurry up if he wants to propose any changes, which he hasn't, as German people are getting very impatient with him.

I appreciate this is only at the debating stage Gerry but it seems some are taking it more seriously than others .On Tuesday the Hungarian parliament voted for no more integration with the EU and the abolition of the EU parliament which they see as a lop sided voting chamber in favour of one or two nations . (You can guess which from Nicks post)

Even when we were involved UK MEP's recognised that when we did oppose legistlation we invariably lost ,possibly because all the UKIP MEP's were down the Grand Place having an extended lunch but more likely that the Germans had got enough members on side and they knew it .

[Nick]

Is this like Turkey is joining the EU or the bendy banana law. For argument sake lets entertain this. If Germany wanted this they could use the EU Commission/Council to initiate the legislative changes to bring about the changes. They would have one vote out of 27, and would require at least a majority possibly countries would have a veto, I'm not sure. But tell me how Germany would have any more say, than say Slovenia, in bring about this change ?
With the way Scholz is handling the Ukraine situation, he would want to hurry up if he wants to propose any changes, which he hasn't, as German people are getting very impatient with him.

Does your naivety know no bounds Gerry? Germany has 96 MEPS compared to Slovenia's 8. 
Germany, France, Italy and Spain hold over 50% of MEP's and seeing that Italy and Spain are almost 3rd world countries, with untold corruption, they do pretty much what keeps their economies from collapsing. Macron knows which side his bread is buttered on, so does that explain to you how Germany controls the EU? Oh, and BTW, Poland has the next biggest representation in the EU with over 50 MEPS, hence the reason they are kept reasonably quiet with 10 Billion Euros is hush money. 

Wake up and smell the coffee Gerry. 

The plus numbers are the 26 MEP increases that were handed out, predominately to the top countries after the U.K. vacated 73 seats!!


  

[GerryT]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-can-no-longer-afford-national-vetoes-foreign-policy-germanys-scholz-2022-07-17/?fbclid=IwAR1rb446ORaXc0XxggTCzQQSTqnWOOu0QYtzCxZzptl3PWuZje64tzUlx9w


So who thinks rejoining the EU is now a good idea ?  No more veteo's on defence or foreign policy a weakening euro and an EU wide immigration policy

Good luck with selling that to the masses

Is this like Turkey is joining the EU or the bendy banana law. For argument sake lets entertain this. If Germany wanted this they could use the EU Commission/Council to initiate the legislative changes to bring about the changes. They would have one vote out of 27, and would require at least a majority possibly countries would have a veto, I'm not sure. But tell me how Germany would have any more say, than say Slovenia, in bring about this change ?
With the way Scholz is handling the Ukraine situation, he would want to hurry up if he wants to propose any changes, which he hasn't, as German people are getting very impatient with him.

[johnofgwent]

You are entitled to have an opinion on anything you want. You can argue that cat owners should get proxy votes on behalf of their cats if you wanted to.

But insofar as the EU is concerned, whilst the consequences of leaving it - whether they are good or bad - are obviously highly relevent today, what is happening inside the EU now that we are not in it should be of little significance to us. And that's just my opinion and I am as entitled to espress it as you are to yours.

If you feel strongly about what goes on inside the EU, like a Brexiteer who can't quite get over the fact that we have left, then by all means bang on about it. But a couple of sentences explaining why it should matter to us now we are out of it would be nice, because I am struggling to see the relevance. But I suppose the doings of the EU have long since become obsessions, and obsessions are hard to give up.

It's a simple enough point really.

The biggest voice in Germany, the country with the biggest say on what the EU does, which has a track record of financially crucifying those who break the rules it sets, unless they tbemselves break them in which case nothing happens, is whingeing that the protections promised to those who signed up to the Maastricht and Lisbon conversions of a trading bloc into a superstate have to be exterminated and the dissenters forced to do what Germany says.

And the UK is still full of pricks who want to rejoin this freakshow

[srb7677]

Well for one it's a politics forum this is politics and secondly Gerry and others like to remind us we made a massive mistake in leaving,that's fine you're entitled to your opinion but somehow you feel we're not.

You are entitled to have an opinion on anything you want. You can argue that cat owners should get proxy votes on behalf of their cats if you wanted to.

But insofar as the EU is concerned, whilst the consequences of leaving it - whether they are good or bad - are obviously highly relevent today, what is happening inside the EU now that we are not in it should be of little significance to us. And that's just my opinion and I am as entitled to espress it as you are to yours.

If you feel strongly about what goes on inside the EU, like a Brexiteer who can't quite get over the fact that we have left, then by all means bang on about it. But a couple of sentences explaining why it should matter to us now we are out of it would be nice, because I am struggling to see the relevance. But I suppose the doings of the EU have long since become obsessions, and obsessions are hard to give up.

[cromwell]

Why are you lot so bothered since it is none of our business anymore?

And anything they do without us which makes it less likely we will rejoin, why do you need to bang on about it?

Just quietly let them get on with it and if and when rejoining becomes an issue you can then throw all this into the argument at the time. Because until then it clearly doesn't matter to us. And the fact that we are no longer members means we cannot veto or stop anything they do anyway. We have no voice there.

Well for one it's a politics forum this is politics and secondly Gerry and others like to remind us we made a massive mistake in leaving,that's fine you're entitled to your opinion but somehow you feel we're not.

[cromwell]

I stand by my words which are factually correct. I ignored the OP because it is the usual Brexiteer guff.

On the one hand, the EU is pilloried for not being democratic enough. And on the other, the weakening of vetoes in favour of majority decisions - which is necessary for democracy to work - gets attacked too.

As for your notion of Berlin giving the orders, is it any wonder that I parodied Churchill? No single nation gives the orders in the EU, it is a collective endeavour. Trying to make it out to be some kind of German-dominated Fourth Reich is typical Brexiteer codswallop, worthy of a piss-taking Churchillian mockfest.

And tell me, will you still be championing the will of the people when a majority of them decide they want to rejoin? Or does the will of the people only matter when the people want the same thing as you?

You must have missed my very recent post where ai said had it gone the other way I'd respect it,do you need me to find it for you?

[srb7677]

Well what will Gerry say,one of the big planks in his support for the eu looks to disappear.

How will he justify this?

Why are you lot so bothered since it is none of our business anymore?

And anything they do without us which makes it less likely we will rejoin, why do you need to bang on about it?

Just quietly let them get on with it and if and when rejoining becomes an issue you can then throw all this into the argument at the time. Because until then it clearly doesn't matter to us. And the fact that we are no longer members means we cannot veto or stop anything they do anyway. We have no voice there.

[johnofgwent]

I stand by my words which are factually correct. I ignored the OP because it is the usual Brexiteer guff.

On the one hand, the EU is pilloried for not being democratic enough. And on the other, the weakening of vetoes in favour of majority decisions - which is necessary for democracy to work - gets attacked too.

As for your notion of Berlin giving the orders, is it any wonder that I parodied Churchill? No single nation gives the orders in the EU, it is a collective endeavour. Trying to make it out to be some kind of German-dominated Fourth Reich is typical Brexiteer codswallop, worthy of a piss-taking Churchillian mockfest.

And tell me, will you still be championing the will of the people when a majority of them decide they want to rejoin? Or does the will of the people only matter when the people want the same thing as you?

So just for a moment, remind me if you will which EU leader was it that raised the problem...

I think you should address your last point to the leaders of the Bollocks To BREXIT movement who quite amply demonstrated what their attitude to the will of the people was. Ask them how they are going to repair the damage they have done. Ask them why we should believe a single one of the polls they wave around, given that they set about engineering ways to throw the will of the people in the bin.

[srb7677]

Still unable to answer the OP and resort to its a disaster and as old people die off and those that are left are anti democratic.

Any chance you might answer Streetwalkers point?

I stand by my words which are factually correct. I ignored the OP because it is the usual Brexiteer guff.

On the one hand, the EU is pilloried for not being democratic enough. And on the other, the weakening of vetoes in favour of majority decisions - which is necessary for democracy to work - gets attacked too.

As for your notion of Berlin giving the orders, is it any wonder that I parodied Churchill? No single nation gives the orders in the EU, it is a collective endeavour. Trying to make it out to be some kind of German-dominated Fourth Reich is typical Brexiteer codswallop, worthy of a piss-taking Churchillian mockfest.

And tell me, will you still be championing the will of the people when a majority of them decide they want to rejoin? Or does the will of the people only matter when the people want the same thing as you?

[cromwell]

I will point out that there is a difference between recognising that Brexit was a mistake - as a majority in my polling evidence clearly do - and actively wishing to rejoin. There are likely to be a number who view Brexit as a mistake but who have no stomach for rejoining right now and hope to make the best out of a bad dinner.

Nevertheless, even in your list of polls an overall trend is discernible, with polls showing a desire to rejoin outnumbering those wishing to remain out in the majority of the later and thus more recent polls.

People are slowly waking up to the fact that they were sold a dud, but that was always a slow burner. There is also the fact that Brexit supporters were always most heavily concentrated in the more elderly demographics, which as is the nature of things for all of us as we get older, is the age group that is passing away in the largest numbers. Taking this into account as well, unless Brexit Britain can start looking like an incredible economic success for all it's people and not just a wealthy few, in ten years public opinion is likely to have shifted markedly.

And we'll no longer hear Brexiteers championing the will of the people anymore, but defying it instead.

Still unable to answer the OP and resort to its a disaster and as old people die off and those that are left are anti democratic.

Any chance you might answer Streetwalkers point?

[srb7677]

I'm not convinced. The lists of polls are here, the margins seem a bit of a roller coaster

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020%E2%80%93present)

I will point out that there is a difference between recognising that Brexit was a mistake - as a majority in my polling evidence clearly do - and actively wishing to rejoin. There are likely to be a number who view Brexit as a mistake but who have no stomach for rejoining right now and hope to make the best out of a bad dinner.

Nevertheless, even in your list of polls an overall trend is discernible, with polls showing a desire to rejoin outnumbering those wishing to remain out in the majority of the later and thus more recent polls.

People are slowly waking up to the fact that they were sold a dud, but that was always a slow burner. There is also the fact that Brexit supporters were always most heavily concentrated in the more elderly demographics, which as is the nature of things for all of us as we get older, is the age group that is passing away in the largest numbers. Taking this into account as well, unless Brexit Britain can start looking like an incredible economic success for all it's people and not just a wealthy few, in ten years public opinion is likely to have shifted markedly.

And we'll no longer hear Brexiteers championing the will of the people anymore, but defying it instead.

[johnofgwent]

Now that we have all seen the outcome, polling is tending to suggest that those who think Brexit a mistake outnumber those still supportive of it, and the negative ones are growing in number.

These are uncomfortable facts for those who like to champion the will of the people, because my bet is the will of the people only matters to them if they want the same things as they do....


In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the EU? – What UK Thinks: EU

I'm not convinced. The lists of polls are here, the margins seem a bit of a roller coaster

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom_rejoining_the_European_Union_(2020%E2%80%93present)