Does it matter who I vote for?

[srb7677]

If you take someone to the edge of a cliff and push them off that's your fault, which in effect what Labour did in 2010. You can't expect the Tories to arrest the fall that quickly. The interest payments were roughly 8% of the tax coffers, hence the austerity, which was bringing it down until Covid. So this crap from Labour about the Tories increasing the debt is nonsense, Labour set the trajectory of the ride and then got off leaving a big sign saying there is no money.

Actually I recall quite clearly that our debt was in no way excessive until the greedy bankers trashed the economy, a process that began in America and was a global phenomenon.

[Sheepy]

And we have already proved under certain circumstances we can be anyones if there is much needed dough in it.

Something unexpected cropped up? funny they say that every time.

[Nick]

I didn't use the £400 billion covid borrowing I deliberately separated the two. The chart I offer shows Tory borrowing to 2018. I don't dispute the spike in 2008 -10 but I point out the rise beyond that point never dropped to 2010 levels in that period  a massive increase to our total borrowing.
The problem for the country being that combine that rate of borrowing with  the drastic cutting of a multitude of budgets , had left us severely exposed to any problem let alone one as great as covid became.
And where we are now has to put into perspective what actually being bankrupt is going to look like because at this rate of knots it can not be so very far away.

If you take someone to the edge of a cliff and push them off that's your fault, which in effect what Labour did in 2010. You can't expect the Tories to arrest the fall that quickly. The interest payments were roughly 8% of the tax coffers, hence the austerity, which was bringing it down until Covid. So this crap from Labour about the Tories increasing the debt is nonsense, Labour set the trajectory of the ride and then got off leaving a big sign saying there is no money. 

[Good old]

The Chinese love a bankrupt country they arrive with loans and debt plans, funny though so do the IMF.

And we have already proved under certain circumstances we can be anyones if there is much needed dough in it.

[Sheepy]

I didn't use the £400 billion covid borrowing I deliberately separated the two. The chart I offer shows Tory borrowing to 2018. I don't dispute the spike in 2008 -10 but I point out the rise beyond that point never dropped to 2010 levels in that period  a massive increase to our total borrowing.
The problem for the country being that combine that rate of borrowing with  the drastic cutting of a multitude of budgets , had left us severely exposed to any problem let alone one as great as covid became.
And where we are now has to put into perspective what actually being bankrupt is going to look like because at this rate of knots it can not be so very far away.

The Chinese love a bankrupt country they arrive with loans and debt plans, funny though so do the IMF. 

[Good old]

And the 2021 fast rise was supporting the whole economy, didn't stop you using it as evidence in your post.

I didn't use the £400 billion covid borrowing I deliberately separated the two. The chart I offer shows Tory borrowing to 2018. I don't dispute the spike in 2008 -10 but I point out the rise beyond that point never dropped to 2010 levels in that period  a massive increase to our total borrowing.
The problem for the country being that combine that rate of borrowing with  the drastic cutting of a multitude of budgets , had left us severely exposed to any problem let alone one as great as covid became.
And where we are now has to put into perspective what actually being bankrupt is going to look like because at this rate of knots it can not be so very far away.

[Nick]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt#/media/File:UK_Debt_as_percentage_of_GDP.svg
The fast rise coincided with supporting the banks. And it has barely moved down ever since , with borrowing remaining constantly high. And not likely to come down in any sort of a hurry if Truss, is to be believed.

And the 2021 fast rise was supporting the whole economy, didn't stop you using it as evidence in your post.

[Good old]

Well you say that Labour could/would never bankrupt the country. Well yes you could be right but then neither have the Conservatives although I submit that Labour has got a lot nearer in the past. Cameron tried hard to redress the balance by cutting the profligacy of the Labour years who encouraged non jobs in the public sector that we are still suffering from. It's called buying votes. The more people you can get reliant on public money the more likely they are to vote for you. Brown was a dab hand at that introducing wage top ups that meant even those on fair wages had a handout. All that did was let employers off. Then of course they welcomed EU workers who found our streets paved in gold compared to many of their living standards which simply devalued our employment even more and feathered the employer's nests again. I could go on but of course Labour is for the working man! Let's not wreck the Labour illusions.

That's laughable in so much as is true to a degree. Opening the door for  Cameron, and since to introducing more and more opportunities for employers to offer short hours working .  Lowering the support that needs , and in doing so introducing more people than ever to poverty standards.
The build up of private landlords encouraged by the Tories sweeping up much of the help on offer by taking welfare support on high rental costs. So two winners ,employer and landlord. Both most likely staunch Tories.
As for foreign workers ,only UKIP forced the Tory bosses to rethink that one. 
This isn't about point scoring any more ,it's realising we are not going to get right if we don't realise how bad it is.
I have said it could be to late for anyone. We should know in two years from now .

[Good old]

And debt to GDP was coming down prior to Covid, with the fastest rise also prior to Covid was under the Labour Party, same as the first milk snatch and food bank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt#/media/File:UK_Debt_as_percentage_of_GDP.svg
The fast rise coincided with supporting the banks. And it has barely moved down ever since , with borrowing remaining constantly high. And not likely to come down in any sort of a hurry if Truss, is to be believed.

[Nick]

The pandemic is not the excuse for the total period from 2010 the Tories have borrowed £1.2 trillion since that date . £ 800 billion before Covid . All that time cutting vital services, that they now struggle to know how to reinstate. Presiding over a constant bump along the bottom growth in the  economy! This  is the trouble Toots. You and far to many more think a silly office joke, should have ever been used as a basis to consider the true state of our economy, even to the point of thinking our condition has improved when it certainly has not.
It's a mess and it would seem as long as the mess is made and presided over by a Tory government alls well.

And debt to GDP was coming down prior to Covid, with the fastest rise also prior to Covid was under the Labour Party, same as the first milk snatch and food bank. 

[T00ts]

Maybe you would like to say why  you don't know?

Well you say that Labour could/would never bankrupt the country. Well yes you could be right but then neither have the Conservatives although I submit that Labour has got a lot nearer in the past. Cameron tried hard to redress the balance by cutting the profligacy of the Labour years who encouraged non jobs in the public sector that we are still suffering from. It's called buying votes. The more people you can get reliant on public money the more likely they are to vote for you. Brown was a dab hand at that introducing wage top ups that meant even those on fair wages had a handout. All that did was let employers off. Then of course they welcomed EU workers who found our streets paved in gold compared to many of their living standards which simply devalued our employment even more and feathered the employer's nests again. I could go on but of course Labour is for the working man! Let's not wreck the Labour illusions.

[Good old]

I really don't know how you can come up with that as a reply.

Maybe you would like to say why  you don't know?

[Sheepy]

I really don't know how you can come up with that as a reply.

Because that is what he is meant to do, believe there is a difference between them, the reality tells a different story.

[T00ts]

The pandemic is not the excuse for the total period from 2010 the Tories have borrowed £1.2 trillion since that date . £ 800 billion before Covid . All that time cutting vital services, that they now struggle to know how to reinstate. Presiding over a constant bump along the bottom growth in the  economy! This  is the trouble Toots. You and far to many more think a silly office joke, should have ever been used as a basis to consider the true state of our economy, even to the point of thinking our condition has improved when it certainly has not.
It's a mess and it would seem as long as the mess is made and presided over by a Tory government alls well.

I really don't know how you can come up with that as a reply. 

[Good old]

Just remind. When was the pandemic during a recent Labour Government? Also what was that note left for the incoming Conservatives about there being no money left?

The pandemic is not the excuse for the total period from 2010 the Tories have borrowed £1.2 trillion since that date . £ 800 billion before Covid . All that time cutting vital services, that they now struggle to know how to reinstate. Presiding over a constant bump along the bottom growth in the  economy! This  is the trouble Toots. You and far to many more think a silly office joke, should have ever been used as a basis to consider the true state of our economy, even to the point of thinking our condition has improved when it certainly has not.
It's a mess and it would seem as long as the mess is made and presided over by a Tory government alls well.