Latest Chinese export - coronavirus COVID-19

[Barry]

Quite, for decades now medical science and the NHS has become expert at keeping people alive, which is not the same as returing them to being fit enough for the work place.

I remember an incident some years ago with 10 or a dozen Last Of The Summer Wine and Waiting For God types were sat at a table.

One stated:- "I bet I am more medication than any of you lot."

He lost, the "winner" was on 36 pills, potions, and inhalers a day, plus being attached to an Oxygen enhancer and having a medical minder with him who looked like the female version of "Odd Job," from the Bond film.

Agreed!  :hattip

[Thomas]

Poor auld pappy. He is on here repeatedly blaming the tories for everything under the planet , wether deserved or not. On our old forum he was banned for threatening to shoot esther mcvey.



He has moaned all the years i have known him online about the tories underfunding the nhs and killing all the old people with their policies.



so when barry defends the uk government over covid 19 , by saying the NHS in the yookay has artificially kept the auld yins alive anyway unlike any other country , and the tory government allowing covid 19 to swamp this island and kill thousands of them is actually a blessing in disguise , pappy dances on the head of a pin , does a complete u turn , and agrees with what he previously disagreed with ::



Barry is a brummie pappy. He loves the hated tories , and calls a fish feckin supper feeessh and cheeeps. ::

[Thomas]

Quite, for decades now medical science and the NHS has become expert at keeping people alive, which is not the same as returing them to being fit enough for the work place.

I remember an incident some years ago with 10 or a dozen Last Of The Summer Wine and Waiting For God types were sat at a table.

One stated:- "I bet I am more medication than any of you lot."

He lost, the "winner" was on 36 pills, potions, and inhalers a day, plus being attached to an Oxygen enhancer and having a medical minder with him who looked like the female version of "Odd Job," from the Bond film.

poor auld pappy. Always missing the point of the thread.... ::

[papasmurf]

Yes, well, we probably have some of the unhealthiest, most vulnerable pensioners in the world, Thomas.

The health service has kept those creaking gates going for a long time.

Quite, for decades now medical science and the NHS has become expert at keeping people alive, which is not the same as returing them to being fit enough for the work place.

I remember an incident some years ago with 10 or a dozen Last Of The Summer Wine and Waiting For God types were sat at a table.

One stated:- "I bet I am more medication than any of you lot."

He lost, the "winner" was on 36 pills, potions, and inhalers a day, plus being attached to an Oxygen enhancer and having a medical minder with him who looked like the female version of "Odd Job," from the Bond film.

[Thomas]

Yes, well, we probably have some of the unhealthiest, most vulnerable pensioners in the world, Thomas.

The health service has kept those creaking gates going for a long time. They have to die from something.

I note you ignored the deaths per million. The virus does not have political colours, you do.

I note you ignore much of what i have said.



The 6th richest country in the world , empire and all that , has some of the most unhealthiest and vulnerable pensioners in the world? please barry dont make me feckin laugh.



We know britian isnt a country, but it is an island , with the natural defence of the sea. We all know the government has known about covid 19 since december last year , on top of that , even as late as march , professors like prof costello that i linked to ..

Coronavirus: UK 'probably' has 'Europe's highest death rate' because government was 'too slow' to act, expert warns

[/b]

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-04-17/further-waves-of-coronavirus-will-hit-britain-leading-doctor-warns/">https://www.itv.com/news/2020-04-17/fur ... tor-warns/">https://www.itv.com/news/2020-04-17/further-waves-of-coronavirus-will-hit-britain-leading-doctor-warns/



were saying ( if we take on board your dodge about the uk having unhealthiest penisoners in the world) that the uk government were too slow to act , could have locked down greater london while the rest of us carried on held in check by contact tracing and mass testing.



As an island , with natural defences the like of which most other nations dont have , your governemnt could have closed our ports or severely screend those entering the uk like most other countries i nthe world were doing. Your governments response?



Allow 3.1 million untested from coronavirus hotspots through heathrow alone in march  , abandon any pretence of testing and contact tracing , dig out the vera lyn records and bunting and clap for boris.



So if you are admitting the uk has apparently the most vulnerable and unhealthy pensioners i nthe world , then you are admitting the uk government is culpable in unnecessary deaths which could have been avoided.



Oh look theres a chinese squirrel.

[Barry]

FFS the uk is on course to have the highest death toll from covid 19 in the world. A feckin island that has a natural defence of the sea , with the only entrance through our air and sea ports , yet we are on course to have a higher death toll than many landlaocked countries that cant boast that natural defence.

Yes, well, we probably have some of the unhealthiest, most vulnerable pensioners in the world, Thomas.

The health service has kept those creaking gates going for a long time. They have to die from something.

I note you ignored the deaths per million. The virus does not have political colours, you do.

[Thomas]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV3bCqcWkAA3e5c?format=jpg&name=small">

With the UK death rate among the worst in the world, now is not the time to tell people to stop making political points. All of this crisis is political. Everything. These death rates are a result of political choices. Those choices must be scrutinised.

[/b]



https://twitter.com/LeanneWood/status/1251397130914234368">https://twitter.com/LeanneWood/status/1 ... 0914234368">https://twitter.com/LeanneWood/status/1251397130914234368

[Thomas]

That is because the Chinese outbreak was not constant throughout the country. The main outbreak was in one City and its surrounding districts in one Province. These were quickly locked down and the rest of the country locked down before the virus was able to spread in any great quantity.

Look at the figures again for Hubei and the rates are far more aligned with the rest of the world.

On a political level , i dont think you and i agree on many things sampan , but i agree with you here.



I dont think i trust many governments around the world to be open and transparent , especially and including the uk government , whom as i have been mentioning yesterday on this forum , are severely on the back foot.



What actually is the uk death toll from coronavirus? 14 500? yet they tell us there are approx another 7500 dead in care homes from covid 19 etc who havent been put on the official list? One minute we are being told , in a wave of disinformation , that doctors are being overzealous and putting down covid 19 as the cause of death wether there are more prominent underlying factors or not , the next , i was reading this yesterday....

We have now written a formal pre action letter to the NHS Trust which is discouraging doctors from attributing deaths to Covid-19. We ask it to change its guidance and review all affected death certificates.

[/b]

Matt Hancock: Report the true death toll from COVID-19.



Leaked guidance from an NHS hospital trust reveals that doctors are not being required to report COVID-19 as the cause of death for patients. Here's what the guidance says:



'Doctors are asked to use the standard MCCD (Medical Certificate of Cause of Death) form to certify death. 'Pneumonia 'or 'community acquired pneumonia' are acceptable at 1(a) on the MCCD. There is no requirement to write COVID 19 as part of the MCCD. It may be mentioned at 1(b) on the form, should the doctor wish.'



The guidance can be seen here. The Good Law Project has instructed a legal team to write a letter to the hospital trust to ask them to withdraw this guidance urgently. You can read the letter here.



The government's daily figures for the number of deaths from COVID-19 are based on what is reported on death certificates. If doctors are not required to write COVID-19 anywhere on the death certificate, then we have no way of knowing if those figures are correct.



The Health Secretary Matt Hancock needs to act to ensure all COVID-19 deaths are recorded and reported properly. He should investigate what advice is being given out to doctors by all hospital trusts.



Will you add your name to the petition and demand that Matt Hancock takes action to ensure all suspected deaths from COVID-19 are recorded?

[/b]



https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/">https://goodlawproject.org/covid-19-deaths/



From my point of view i dont believe the chinese government. I dont think the chinese or anyone else on this earth though are going to take lessons in transparency from the british. Wasnt it vladimir putin who said everything he learned about propaganda he learned from the british?



Isnt it funny as well , the minute the uk government are in a large hole that is getting deeper by the second , their attack dogs in the media start screaming about chinese transparency?



FFS the uk is on course to have the highest death toll from covid 19 in the world. A feckin island that has a natural defence of the sea , with the only entrance through our air and sea ports , yet we are on course to have a higher death toll than many landlaocked countries that cant boast that natural defence.



As the pressure mounts on twats like hancock while johnson remains missing at sea , be prepared for more shit getting thrown at the chnese and russians.( pat will be along any minute to accuse us of being russian bots)



Mounting criticism of the uk government?





Oh look ....a squirrel.

[Sampanviking]

China's figures are 2 deaths per million population. Believe that if you wish, I don't.



Current deaths per million elsewhere:



Belgium 419

Spain 413

Italy 367

France 275

UK 202

That is because the Chinese outbreak was not constant throughout the country. The main outbreak was in one City and its surrounding districts in one Province. These were quickly locked down and the rest of the country locked down before the virus was able to spread in any great quantity.

Look at the figures again for Hubei and the rates are far more aligned with the rest of the world.

[Barry]

China's figures are 2 deaths per million population. Believe that if you wish, I don't.



Current deaths per million elsewhere:



Belgium 419

Spain 413

Italy 367

France 275

UK 202

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

Today China reports an additional 1290 deaths that occurred outside hospitals. Other countries have produced additional statistics in recent weeks, including UK and France, and China insists there was no cover-up.  



But another statistic from China today is worrying - the number of confirmed cases is 351, far higher than on any day in recent weeks.  Could this be the result of lifting Lockdown in Wuhan a few days ago?

[Scott777]

Now there is a big question about immunity:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/10/south-korea-reports-recovered-coronavirus-patients-testing-positive/">//https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/10/south-korea-reports-recovered-coronavirus-patients-testing-positive/

South Korea reported on Friday that 91 recovered coronavirus patients have tested positive for the disease again, raising questions over health experts' understanding of the pandemic.



The prospect of people being re-infected with the virus is of international concern, as many countries are hoping that infected populations will develop sufficient immunity to prevent a resurgence of the pandemic.



The reports have also prompted fears the virus may remain active in patients for much longer than was previously thought.



Korean health officials reported Friday that 91 patients thought to have been cleared of the virus had tested positive again, up from 51 people on Monday.



The Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) announced it had sent a team to the city of Daegu, the worst hit area, to investigate why patients there were testing positive again.



South Korea's early and widespread testing was held up as an example for the rest of the world CREDIT]



91 is too many to ignore the reinfection or reactivation. It means that the virus will not easily go away and no-one can be assumed clear or immune.

That's interesting, because I had a slight relapse of symptoms a week after I thought it had completely gone.  It was even more mild, however, so I think this is basically down to contagiousness - people in hospital are still being exposed.  And faulty tests, too.  I'm not sure immunity is a cut and dry thing.  If the virus gets inside you again, it will try to do it's stuff, but the more there is of it, the better it may succeed.  I suspect it's staying for good.

[Javert]

Now there is a big question about immunity:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/10/south-korea-reports-recovered-coronavirus-patients-testing-positive/">//https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/10/south-korea-reports-recovered-coronavirus-patients-testing-positive/

South Korea reported on Friday that 91 recovered coronavirus patients have tested positive for the disease again, raising questions over health experts' understanding of the pandemic.



The prospect of people being re-infected with the virus is of international concern, as many countries are hoping that infected populations will develop sufficient immunity to prevent a resurgence of the pandemic.



The reports have also prompted fears the virus may remain active in patients for much longer than was previously thought.



Korean health officials reported Friday that 91 patients thought to have been cleared of the virus had tested positive again, up from 51 people on Monday.



The Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) announced it had sent a team to the city of Daegu, the worst hit area, to investigate why patients there were testing positive again.



South Korea's early and widespread testing was held up as an example for the rest of the world CREDIT]



91 is too many to ignore the reinfection or reactivation. It means that the virus will not easily go away and no-one can be assumed clear or immune.

This could indeed potentially be worrying.



However they do not mention how many people were retested in total, and how long it was after their first test, nor do they give figures for the expected percentage of false positive results, and they correctly point out that a positive test for virus load doesn't necessarily mean the person is infectious still.



This is a typical and annoying feature of even broadsheet newspapers these days - they throw out single statistics without giving any background baseline or context.



Further, a person could be infected again, and it might take a day or two for their antibodies to kick in, so you might test them in that small window.



Was there a link to more details which might reveal some of the above points?

[Barry]

Now there is a big question about immunity:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/10/south-korea-reports-recovered-coronavirus-patients-testing-positive/">//https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/10/south-korea-reports-recovered-coronavirus-patients-testing-positive/

South Korea reported on Friday that 91 recovered coronavirus patients have tested positive for the disease again, raising questions over health experts' understanding of the pandemic.



The prospect of people being re-infected with the virus is of international concern, as many countries are hoping that infected populations will develop sufficient immunity to prevent a resurgence of the pandemic.



The reports have also prompted fears the virus may remain active in patients for much longer than was previously thought.



Korean health officials reported Friday that 91 patients thought to have been cleared of the virus had tested positive again, up from 51 people on Monday.



The Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) announced it had sent a team to the city of Daegu, the worst hit area, to investigate why patients there were testing positive again.



South Korea's early and widespread testing was held up as an example for the rest of the world CREDIT]



91 is too many to ignore the reinfection or reactivation. It means that the virus will not easily go away and no-one can be assumed clear or immune.

[Scott777]

What are you on about Italy's health service is better than ours.

That's not saying much, though.  I'm going by Prof. Dr. med. Sucharit Bhakdi, (Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz) who described it as ailing.  I'm sure it's a factor, along with pollution, smoking, etc.