Latest Chinese export - coronavirus COVID-19

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

I can see both sides of the argument. The CV19 is actually removing a lot of aged and unhealthy people from the planet.

In the UK 600,000 people die each year. Maybe 20,000 will die with this virus as it runs its course, but many of those may well have died this year, in any case.

It would be economically better to have this virus go through the population quicker and have a shorter close-down, or no close-down at all.

With everyone waiting for the death figures each day all 20,000 to die in 2 months might panic people. It's a very difficult decision to make in so many respects, socially, medically and economically.

What I want to know is how will we know if people are immune if they can't be sure they have had it? Because when it has gone we will be a healthier society as a whole, but only for a short time.

I don't know how old you are or whether you have general good health.  But even if you're young or middle-aged and healthy, the disease can still be very nasty or even dangerous.

[T00ts]

I can see both sides of the argument. The CV19 is actually removing a lot of aged and unhealthy people from the planet.

In the UK 600,000 people die each year. Maybe 20,000 will die with this virus as it runs its course, but many of those may well have died this year, in any case.

It would be economically better to have this virus go through the population quicker and have a shorter close-down, or no close-down at all.

With everyone waiting for the death figures each day all 20,000 to die in 2 months might panic people. It's a very difficult decision to make in so many respects, socially, medically and economically.

What I want to know is how will we know if people are immune if they can't be sure they have had it? Because when it has gone we will be a healthier society as a whole, but only for a short time.

Surely if we plump for unrestricted infection there will be more deaths simply through lack of any care. No health system can cope with huge numbers. We will be back to lorries travelling the streets crying 'bring out your dead!'.

Many who have years of productive life ahead of them need medical intervention but will survive but without it have little chance. I have said before that if the choice is between me and a young active person I would happily give up my place and let's face it if their plan to create steady waves of infection by relaxing the lockdowns over the next year come into play I may well still be a candidate for infection/demise as will many others like me.



I see the plan as gradually creating waves of infection while others manage to survive and those recovering will enter back into the workforce to start rebuilding the economy. At the moment we are only at the beginning so we cannot yet see any results. They have said they are looking hard for a test that will tell them that someone has survived it and without that there is no proof of our success.

[Barry]

I can see both sides of the argument. The CV19 is actually removing a lot of aged and unhealthy people from the planet.

In the UK 600,000 people die each year. Maybe 20,000 will die with this virus as it runs its course, but many of those may well have died this year, in any case.

It would be economically better to have this virus go through the population quicker and have a shorter close-down, or no close-down at all.

With everyone waiting for the death figures each day all 20,000 to die in 2 months might panic people. It's a very difficult decision to make in so many respects, socially, medically and economically.

What I want to know is how will we know if people are immune if they can't be sure they have had it? Because when it has gone we will be a healthier society as a whole, but only for a short time.

[Nick]

Well aware of the date of the graph but when you post

to the casual glance it's as though you are comparing to the here and now,but you're not are you?



So those figures aren't relevant,and if you are bringing perspective why weren't you banging on about this previous to this hitting Europe,yes ain't it sad what happens to the poorer nations,there is a realisation in Africa of what's on the horizon and if it's as predicted when it hits them (but who knows)

your graph  might seem as nothing as the deaths to come.

I brought it up many times on the old forum and as we have both said, we will just have to wait and see.  :hattip

[cromwell]

The graph is based on figures to the 9th March, are you suggesting the Centre for Disease Control, the WHO and the Lancet made this graph up?



Malaria, Hep B and TB deaths total almost 8,000 deaths per day, strange how no one gives a flying fig about these people. Ah, they're just poor people in Africa, we expect them to die young !!



600,000 African people a year die from inhalation of fumes because they have to cook on open fires inside their huts, all because the western world kills the African dream and won't allow them to develop and build power stations.



So excuse me if I try to bring a bit of perspective to the table. If people want to care, include the poor sods who have been cheating death since the day they were born, people with a life expectancy of less than 60, people who dream of being in our endangered age category.

Well aware of the date of the graph but when you post

Just saying

to the casual glance it's as though you are comparing to the here and now,but you're not are you?



So those figures aren't relevant,and if you are bringing perspective why weren't you banging on about this previous to this hitting Europe,yes ain't it sad what happens to the poorer nations,there is a realisation in Africa of what's on the horizon and if it's as predicted when it hits them (but who knows)

your graph  might seem as nothing as the deaths to come.

[Nick]

That's a nice graph Nick,56 deaths from covid worldwide each day,so how do you explain the 345 deaths from covid in Italy alone today,are you suggesting they are making those figures up?

The graph is based on figures to the 9th March, are you suggesting the Centre for Disease Control, the WHO and the Lancet made this graph up?



Malaria, Hep B and TB deaths total almost 8,000 deaths per day, strange how no one gives a flying fig about these people. Ah, they're just poor people in Africa, we expect them to die young !!



600,000 African people a year die from inhalation of fumes because they have to cook on open fires inside their huts, all because the western world kills the African dream and won't allow them to develop and build power stations.



So excuse me if I try to bring a bit of perspective to the table. If people want to care, include the poor sods who have been cheating death since the day they were born, people with a life expectancy of less than 60, people who dream of being in our endangered age category.

[cromwell]

Just saying!!



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That's a nice graph Nick,56 deaths from covid worldwide each day,so how do you explain the 345 deaths from covid in Italy alone today,are you suggesting they are making those figures up?

[Nick]

Just saying!!



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESsudjOXsAEc0N0?format=png&name=4096x4096">

[Scott777]

We are not testing until things get bad enough to need hospitalisation, so the number now known, is actually the number in hospital and needing medical care.

Exactly as I've been saying.  The guesstimate is 55,000 cases out there, who are not serious.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

The announcement of a 3 month mortgage holiday will lift one worry from a lot of people, there's enough to worry about without having financial worries. Now the government should announce a 3 month rent holiday too. This should be part of a wider ruling that nobody can be evicted from their home over the next 3 months.

[GregB]

There seems to be a sub context to this from what I have heard. If the Government gives out an edict for everything to close those businesses will have recourse to their insurance. As it is  they are stuck financially. In the last hour the Insurance companies have said that many businesses would not be covered either way. I just wonder how deep the global - it surely will have to be global - pockets will be and how far all of us will have to go to keep people solvent.  If companies go down wholesale the dole queue will stretch to the moon and back.

That's not the case based on the daily DS update I've just watched. They stated they had these discussions with insurance bodies and this wasn't the case. Time will tell I guess.



The latest financial support seems quite comprehension, 330 billion with the potential for more to come. I think the right noises are being made, I'm sure it won't satisfy evetone but if it's followed through surely it will help.

[T00ts]

A few years ago I was asked by the area commander South Western rescue services after he got back from going on a practice on the Lizard Lifeboat with his wife:-  "How do you all carry out such complex operations like launching and recovering the life boat with next to no communication between."



I answered:- " if you don't know what to do you shouldn't be here."

Doesn't that say a lot!  These monkeys are still pontificating - oh just finished and Hunt said 'it's such a busy time thank you for giving yours'. I should think he had his fingers crossed under the table.

[papasmurf]

It's no good how hard the front line works if those in the offices are too busy doing too little for support that as one doctor wrote to Hunt - we're going to die!'

A few years ago I was asked by the area commander South Western rescue services after he got back from going on a practice on the Lizard Lifeboat with his wife:-  "How do you all carry out such complex operations like launching and recovering the life boat with next to no communication between."



I answered:- " if you don't know what to do you shouldn't be here."

[T00ts]

Given the seriousness of the situation what resources are available and where is something they should know. Not in their head but at least on a laptop or on the situation boards in the control room or its equivalents.

(Basic soft systems analysis.)

I have to say it has left me quite shocked. So many of their answers related to things they had done this morning or were expecting to do tomorrow. They were so vague it was frightening. Hunt was trying to get a completion date out of them and it was as if they had absolutely no sense of crisis or speed or need for their own staff let alone the patients. You know when people go around the houses trying to buy time before they had to answer? It was horrific and those on the committee knew it. They were still terribly polite but I was wishing they would put a bomb under them. It's no good how hard the front line works if those in the offices are too busy doing too little for support that as one doctor wrote to Hunt - we're going to die!'

[papasmurf]

It's unbelievable they need sacking. They are now being quizzed by a GP/MP who is asking how many ventilators are currently being used. The NHS bosses simply don't know the answers. I have never been so amazed at their incompetence. Talk talk talk and no action or decisions it seems. The GP is obviously horrified.

Given the seriousness of the situation what resources are available and where is something they should know. Not in their head but at least on a laptop or on the situation boards in the control room or its equivalents.

(Basic soft systems analysis.)