Latest Chinese export - coronavirus COVID-19

[cromwell]

I hope you are right to look on the bright side. But even the most optimistic assessment can't hide what's just happened. The US federal reserve just effectively pumped more money into their economy in a few days than they did in the entire last 5 years combined. Their market still tanked by 10% in one day.



This is serious mate. The world's economy is in no shape to tackle another 2008 style crises, and if a trillion dollar hit can't fix the US market, then they've run out of options.



Never mind, eh. We can all sit at home with a runny nose and a sore.throat and watch sensational daytime TV reports about it all, while whole countries are shut down. Just don't ask why so many businesses have failed and where all the jobs have gone in 12 months time.

Well you can't legislate for such things as this virus,nobody seems to have a clear idea of the consequences or they are keeping it under wraps.

I get the feeling you think govts are over reacting,why would they though?

[DeppityDawg]

I hope you are right to look on the bright side. But even the most optimistic assessment can't hide what's just happened. The US federal reserve just effectively pumped more money into their economy in a few days than they did in the entire last 5 years combined. Their market still tanked by 10% in one day.



This is serious mate. The world's economy is in no shape to tackle another 2008 style crises, and if a trillion dollar hit can't fix the US market, then they've run out of options.



Never mind, eh. We can all sit at home with a runny nose and a sore.throat and watch sensational daytime TV reports about it all, while whole countries are shut down. Just don't ask why so many businesses have failed and where all the jobs have gone in 12 months time.

[T00ts]

The lockdown in Hubei region of China was introduced soon after it became apparent that coronavirus was spreading out of control.  It's been in force for about 6 weeks now and the number of new cases and deaths is a fraction of what it was at the peak. The story is similar in South Korea, where the approach was widespread testing and comprehensive treatment.  



It will be interesting - well, more than interesting, it will be vital to see how the lockdown in Italy works over the next 2-3 weeks.  



If the virus here is left to roam free so we'd expect a peak in 10-14 weeks or whatever, that's going to be a lot worse than locking down now, in which case we'd probably reach a much smaller peak within a 2-3 weeks.  Worse not only in terms of human suffering and worry but worse for our economy.



Boris Johnson was on about allowing a level of infection in the community so we could develop a herd immunity.  But it if we take drastic steps now to halt the spread of coronavirus leading to its eventual eradication, we won't need herd immunity.



Re waiting until the evening to shop because it's less busy.  I wonder if it would be safer if you're an at-risk person to go first thing in the morning as fewer people will have been in the shop within the previous hour or two.  I don't know if it would reduce the risk but it's an idea.

No I think that's a false hope. This bug is worldwide and it takes a global effort. Italy has shut down because they can't cope with the numbers just as China. What we are trying to do as I see it, is drip feed the hospitals in the hope that fit people will get themselves through it and the chronic ones will manage with some medical intervention. At the moment from the number known as infected we have about 20 on oxygen etc. It's the finite equipment etc that they are trying to spread far enough. It's not Government but ourselves who need to take some responsibility now.



If we panic now and shut everything down all that will do is delay the crisis. China hasn't opened up yet and we don't know if, when they do, all those areas so far protected will then have another epidemic.

[T00ts]

I have just said this elsewhere but they need as many as possible to get it and survive. They would prefer that everyone not able to fight it just keeps out of the way and not clog up the health service so that they can concentrate on getting others through it with an immunity. The best thing any of us vulnerable ones can do is stand back and watch while the fitter ones fight it for us. They are obviously hoping for a drip drip feed through hospitals so that they can save as many as possible.

If I turn up they are quite rightly going to take one look and simply make me comfortable. Hopefully.



If we close everything and just try to escape it that will achieve nothing. The markets are going to go where they will go, the priority is building immunity. Do that and everything will recover more quickly.

[T00ts]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-51862282/coronavirus-pm-says-more-to-lose-loved-ones-before-their-time">//%20https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-51862282/coronavirus-pm-says-more-to-lose-loved-ones-before-their-time%20



Not exactly Blood, toil, tears and sweat, but it was pretty obvious where the blond moppet got his ideas from. So, well done Boris

I agree someone had to say it. There is no other way. We need as many as possible to catch it and survive. They don't want people clogging up the medics and dying, that's not useful. They want as many kids to have their mild symptoms so that the next generation will be covered. Hopefully that will give them enough time to find a vaccine.

I can imagine Hunt who is currently advocating shutting everything being the wimp he appeared to be when he stood for the leadership. He can't negotiate with the virus any more than he could have done with the EU.

If we all escape it this week it will only hit us next week or month. We need the whole world to act in a similar way.

BJ has already aged, I bet he is not sleeping at night very much. He'll face it head on and good luck to him he deserves respect.

[Borchester]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-51862282/coronavirus-pm-says-more-to-lose-loved-ones-before-their-time">//%20https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-51862282/coronavirus-pm-says-more-to-lose-loved-ones-before-their-time%20



Not exactly Blood, toil, tears and sweat, but it was pretty obvious where the blond moppet got his ideas from. So, well done Boris

[Nick]

It does seem that the government are taking the stance that keeping the economy going is more important than saving a few of the elderly.

The virus won't go away, so in due course we will catch it, recover and become immune.

How the government will deal with the complaints that the NHS can't cope in a few weeks time and cannot give the elderly, dying, the treatment they need to survive, time will tell.

In a way, I agree that no government can protect its people from unseen threats. They have given advice how not to catch it. 2 deaths today makes 10.

Judging by Italy we will be in the 100 area each day in a fortnight.

Not saying you're wrong Barry but there are quite a few assumptions in your post. But one of your assumptions is that we will all get it which is a fair point, so why delay the inevitable and risk the economy as well?



In the words of Scrooge...



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I am joking before anyone throws a hissy fit.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

The lockdown in Hubei region of China was introduced soon after it became apparent that coronavirus was spreading out of control.  It's been in force for about 6 weeks now and the number of new cases and deaths is a fraction of what it was at the peak. The story is similar in South Korea, where the approach was widespread testing and comprehensive treatment.  



It will be interesting - well, more than interesting, it will be vital to see how the lockdown in Italy works over the next 2-3 weeks.  



If the virus here is left to roam free so we'd expect a peak in 10-14 weeks or whatever, that's going to be a lot worse than locking down now, in which case we'd probably reach a much smaller peak within a 2-3 weeks.  Worse not only in terms of human suffering and worry but worse for our economy.



Boris Johnson was on about allowing a level of infection in the community so we could develop a herd immunity.  But it if we take drastic steps now to halt the spread of coronavirus leading to its eventual eradication, we won't need herd immunity.



Re waiting until the evening to shop because it's less busy.  I wonder if it would be safer if you're an at-risk person to go first thing in the morning as fewer people will have been in the shop within the previous hour or two.  I don't know if it would reduce the risk but it's an idea.

[cromwell]

I know a number of people who have had relatives in very serious pain in their last days who would have done that.

I have a friend who is saving up morphine to do the job himself.

 :hattip

[papasmurf]

Years ago I was with a terminally ill relative and someone in an adjacent side ward was doing just that,bloody awful if it was me I'd wish for one of smurfys bolts.

I know a number of people who have had relatives in very serious pain in their last days who would have done that.

I have a friend who is saving up morphine to do the job himself.

[cromwell]

Don't be silly!

Patients are perfectly capable of dying, drowning in their own mucus at times like this. Just hope I'm not one of them, or you'll need a new forum.  ::

Years ago I was with a terminally ill relative and someone in an adjacent side ward was doing just that,bloody awful if it was me I'd wish for one of smurfys bolts.

[Barry]

They could well issue triage nurses with gas operated captive bolt pistols, (humane killers.)

Don't be silly!

Patients are perfectly capable of dying, drowning in their own mucus at times like this. Just hope I'm not one of them, or you'll need a new forum.  ::

[T00ts]

It does seem that the government are taking the stance that keeping the economy going is more important than saving a few of the elderly.

The virus won't go away, so in due course we will catch it, recover and become immune.

How the government will deal with the complaints that the NHS can't cope in a few weeks time and cannot give the elderly, dying, the treatment they need to survive, time will tell.

In a way, I agree that no government can protect its people from unseen threats. They have given advice how not to catch it. 2 deaths today makes 10.

Judging by Italy we will be in the 100 area each day in a fortnight.

I am trying hard to be pragmatic. I have had my sleepless nights worrying about something that with the best of intentions I can't change. What is important for me is that in some small way I do my bit. If that means staying put for however long while at the same time doing what I can to reassure family and friends so that they don't have to worry about me, well that's the least I can do.



Either way the markets are going to hit bottom. There is no way that people are going to be out spending freely, wining and dining, suddenly life us going to get a lot more serious. So we either pull our horns in and try to save as many as we can in the hope that we control it and recover more quickly, or we just let it go where it will. Either way leads to economic disaster. It may well be that this experience will create a massive change in attitude for a while. On the other hand for those focused on the economy all that inherited wealth will create a buoyant economy for next Christmas.

[Barry]

I know - I said that as far as we know covid-19 is not carried in the general atmosphere.  I was comparing instances where lockdown might be introduced.  After an industrial accident, even if it's only slightly dangerous to go outside because the air is contaminated, people are told to stay in as a precaution.  With covid-19 there's no danger in simply going outside but there is a tiny, even infinitesimal, risk if you come into contact with a random person.  Lots of random people coming into contact with other random people and the risk becomes much greater.

It does seem that the government are taking the stance that keeping the economy going is more important than saving a few of the elderly.

The virus won't go away, so in due course we will catch it, recover and become immune.

How the government will deal with the complaints that the NHS can't cope in a few weeks time and cannot give the elderly, dying, the treatment they need to survive, time will tell.

In a way, I agree that no government can protect its people from unseen threats. They have given advice how not to catch it. 2 deaths today makes 10.

Judging by Italy we will be in the 100 area each day in a fortnight.

[cromwell]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-will-bankrupt-more-people-than-it-kills-%E2%80%94-and-thats-the-real-global-emergency/ar-BB113a3n?ocid=spartanntp">https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavi ... spartanntp">https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-will-bankrupt-more-people-than-it-kills-—-and-thats-the-real-global-emergency/ar-BB113a3n?ocid=spartanntp



The (not) Independent isn't my favourite, but it sums up the disaster unfolding in front of us if we continue to call for close down of society (and hence demand for goods and services) like this. Those demanding draconian "action" better be careful what we wish for.







Read about Italy. Its already a basket case, and its hard not to see how virtually stalling its stuttering economy won't push it over the edge and take the rest of Europe (and the UK too) with it.