So, what was the point of Brexit?

[patman post]

Though seperate entities they are intertwined in that All Member states are held liable for human rights violations by the ECHR . Art 6 of the Lisbon treaty requires the EU members to accede to the ECHR
So you can't be member of the EU without taking direction from the ECHR even if thats at odds with EU law . The immediate downsides were always going to be the transition from being members to finnally leaving and thrashing out a trade deal with the EU . The  early years where remoaners are encouraged to throw spanners is still with us

Long term we are not subject to further integration into the federal state . We can make decisions both internally and in future trade arrangments that suit us without having to consider the wants and needs of 27 other nations (apart from any deals with the EU ) The World is our market place , free trade is the future  .

It will take as long as it takes , quicker with everyones co-operation or longer without it  but get there we will

The ECHR came into force in September 1953. The EU's predecessor, the EEC was created by the Treaty of Rome in 1957. The fact that some 60 years later, the EU itself has chosen to become a member and join the 47 member states of the Council of Europe — these already include all other EU states — to my mind shows a positive act and demonstrates that beneficial changes to the EU are possible.

As for the rest, how many lifetimes are you expecting the UK population to wait for before these amazing, but so far intangible, benefits are felt...?

[Nick]

You can't have a 70 million people shitting down a 4'' pipe and not expext some overflow . What the country has to decide is whether to make the pipe bigger or have less people using it

Goal posts moved again SW, the opening gambit was Brexit had caused it, now the obfuscation has started to detract from OP. 

[johnofgwent]

Yeah. The remain camp seem all too eager to point the finger but fail to examine why the Eurozone is in far deeper shit. And it's all down to the US working overtime to hike the dollar.

[Nick]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63515486

Brexit has added to the UK's economic woes by lowering the value of the pound and contributing to price rises, an ex-Bank of England governor has said.

Mark Carney told the BBC the fall in the pound and shrinking economy after the UK left the EU had added to "inflationary pressure".

Well Mark Carney is talking out of his hat, GBP was higher than pre-Brexit levels in July 2021. It dropped from its 2 to 1 status in 2008, dropping by 30%. Again in 2014 where it dropped another 15% over a year and a half. It peaked in 2021 before hitting rock bottom this year, partly due to Truss, but mainly due to the strength of the USD and oil prices. 

Nothing to do with Brexit. 

[Streetwalker]

You have got to be pretty partisan to have accepted the government's line - it's perfectly normal and acceptable for sewage to spill into the rivers whenever there is a shower of rain (there have been many examples found of this happening even with levels of rainfall that aren't outside the norm for the time of year).

It is simply not acceptable in one of the richest countries in the world to be pumping that level of sewage into the river and just saying - oh, it was raining. 

It's amazing what people can normalise quickly.  It's not just that, we now live in a country where if you are having a heart attack and call an ambulance, you may well be put in a hold queue for quite a few minutes before you even get to speak to someone.  This has now become so normalised that they talk about it on documentary shows about ambalance services as if it's always been like that.  I am flabbergasted that they don't point out that this was not the case in the past.

If I speak to colleagues who work in other countries and ask them - is it normal in your country that if you are seriously ill and try to call the emergency services, you are put on hold, and then, if you eventually do get through, you will not get an ambulance for many many hours unless you are actually in cardiac arrest.  An elderly person in my village was left lying on the floor outside for several hours with a broken hip as it was deemed "not life threatening".  He only finally got an ambulance after they called again and said he was struggling to breathe.

What's amazing about this and the sewage thing and so on is how quickly these things seem to become normal - they are not normal in any properly run country.

You can't have a 70 million people shitting down a 4'' pipe and not expext some overflow . What the country has to decide is whether to make the pipe bigger or have less people using it 

[papasmurf]

Though seperate entities they are intertwined in that All Member states are held liable for human rights violations by the ECHR . Art 6 of the Lisbon treaty requires the EU members to accede to the ECHR
So you can't be member of the EU without taking direction from the ECHR even if thats at odds with EU law . The immediate downsides were always going to be the transition from being members to finnally leaving and thrashing out a trade deal with the EU . The  early years where remoaners are encouraged to throw spanners is still with us

Long term we are not subject to further integration into the federal state . We can make decisions both internally and in future trade arrangments that suit us without having to consider the wants and needs of 27 other nations (apart from any deals with the EU ) The World is our market place , free trade is the future  .

It will take as long as it takes , quicker with everyones co-operation or longer without it  but get there we will

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63515486

Brexit has added to the UK's economic woes by lowering the value of the pound and contributing to price rises, an ex-Bank of England governor has said.

Mark Carney told the BBC the fall in the pound and shrinking economy after the UK left the EU had added to "inflationary pressure".

[Javert]

Meanwhile sewage spills out endangering Brits, and across The Channel also putting foreigners' health at risk.

"Please Sir, it's all the fault of that nasty rain coming from overseas."

Isn't that a typical response to be expected from the Farage Fan Club...?

You have got to be pretty partisan to have accepted the government's line - it's perfectly normal and acceptable for sewage to spill into the rivers whenever there is a shower of rain (there have been many examples found of this happening even with levels of rainfall that aren't outside the norm for the time of year).

It is simply not acceptable in one of the richest countries in the world to be pumping that level of sewage into the river and just saying - oh, it was raining.  

It's amazing what people can normalise quickly.  It's not just that, we now live in a country where if you are having a heart attack and call an ambulance, you may well be put in a hold queue for quite a few minutes before you even get to speak to someone.  This has now become so normalised that they talk about it on documentary shows about ambalance services as if it's always been like that.  I am flabbergasted that they don't point out that this was not the case in the past.

If I speak to colleagues who work in other countries and ask them - is it normal in your country that if you are seriously ill and try to call the emergency services, you are put on hold, and then, if you eventually do get through, you will not get an ambulance for many many hours unless you are actually in cardiac arrest.  An elderly person in my village was left lying on the floor outside for several hours with a broken hip as it was deemed "not life threatening".  He only finally got an ambulance after they called again and said he was struggling to breathe.

What's amazing about this and the sewage thing and so on is how quickly these things seem to become normal - they are not normal in any properly run country.

[HallowedBrexit]

Though seperate entities they are intertwined in that All Member states are held liable for human rights violations by the ECHR . Art 6 of the Lisbon treaty requires the EU members to accede to the ECHR
So you can't be member of the EU without taking direction from the ECHR even if thats at odds with EU law . The immediate downsides were always going to be the transition from being members to finnally leaving and thrashing out a trade deal with the EU . The  early years where remoaners are encouraged to throw spanners is still with us

Long term we are not subject to further integration into the federal state . We can make decisions both internally and in future trade arrangments that suit us without having to consider the wants and needs of 27 other nations (apart from any deals with the EU ) The World is our market place , free trade is the future  .

It will take as long as it takes , quicker with everyones co-operation or longer without it  but get there we will

Furthermore, if Donald Trump gets back in in 2022, we can do a very large trade deal with the US and then build our relations with the CANZ(UK) countries.

[Streetwalker]

Putting aside membership of the ECHR (which was never anything to do with the EEC or EU)

Though seperate entities they are intertwined in that All Member states are held liable for human rights violations by the ECHR . Art 6 of the Lisbon treaty requires the EU members to accede to the ECHR 
So you cant be member of the EU without taking direction from the ECHR even if thats at odds with EU law . 

what should we have expected as these immediate Brexit downsides, and what should we now be looking forward to as the long-term plus points? And how long must we wait for them to arrive or be realised...?

The immediate downsides were always going to be the transition from being members to finnally leaving and thrashing out a trade deal with the EU . The  early years where remoaners are encouraged to throw spanners is still with us 

Long term we are not subject to further integration into the federal state . We can make decisions both internally and in future trade arrangments that suit us without having to consider the wants and needs of 27 other nations (apart from any deals with the EU ) The World is our market place , free trade is the future  .

It will take as long as it takes , quicker with everyones co-operation or longer without it  but get there we will 

[Nick]

Meanwhile sewage spills out endangering Brits, and across The Channel also putting foreigners' health at risk.

"Please Sir, it's all the fault of that nasty rain coming from overseas."

Isn't that a typical response to be expected from the Farage Fan Club...?

Spectacular debating skills. 



For an 11 year old. 

[patman post]

Meanwhile sewage spills out endangering Brits, and across The Channel also putting foreigners' health at risk.

"Please Sir, it's all the fault of that nasty rain coming from overseas."

Isn't that a typical response to be expected from the Farage Fan Club...?

[Nick]

Yes — that's the excuse for the latest releases of raw sewage being pumped into Britain's seas and rivers.

But this has been going on for years — in fact, water companies have pumped raw sewage into seas and rivers for more than nine million hours since 2016. This year the EA issued warnings to holidaymakers to avoid dozens of beaches across England and Wales.
https://news.sky.com/story/huge-increase-in-raw-sewage-released-into-uk-waterways-and-sea-data-reveals-12677730

Southern Water was fines £90m last year for widespread pollution after pleading guilty to more than 6,000 unpermitted sewage discharges between 2010 and 2015.

Data released by the Environment Agency [in March] showed that 10 water companies covering England were releasing raw sewage into waterways for hundreds of thousands of hours in 2021. The 372,533 spills were recorded only on those overflows where event duration monitors were in place: 12,608 of the 14,707 overflows, or 89%.

More than 60 discharges a year from an overflow are considered too high and should trigger an investigation. On average, 14% of discharges from the 10 water companies passed that limit.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/31/sewage-released-into-english-rivers-for-27m-hours-last-year-by-water-firms

The UK's Government and water companies no doubt feel safer now the EU is no longer breathing down their necks over sewage pollution. But there's still hope:
"UK sewage dumping could be breach of Brexit pact, says EU Commission"
https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/uk-sewage-dumping-could-be-breach-of-brexit-pact-says-eu-commission/

Just this August Stanley Johnson, the PM's father, has blamed Brexit for the UK's current sewage problem.

Speaking to LBC host Rachel Johnson, the PM's sister, Mr Johnson said it was down to his son's government for the staggering amount of sewage being pumped into Britain's waters.
https://www.nationalworld.com/news/environment/brexit-sewage-uk-regulations-stanley-johnson-discharge-seas-rivers-3815345

More info on these undestandable lapses that have been forced on the UK by "excessive rain" can be read up on in the following:

https://inews.co.uk/news/sewage-discharge-environment-agency-fines-jail-sentences-water-bosses-dumping-rules-1812136
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/15/government-fine-polluting-water-firms-slammed-hot-air-environment-agency
https://www.ft.com/content/09854cab-2be8-4d60-8259-40539d1985d6
https://environment.data.gov.uk/dataset/21e15f12-0df8-4bfc-b763-45226c16a8ac

8 links, none of which cite Brexit as responsible. 
1 article quoting a Labour report, 1 article outlining how the ground couldn't soak up water and subsequently caused the problem. 
Record fines!!
Nothing to do with Brexit, you lost, get over it. 

[patman post]

The Conservatives have been a huge dissapointment getting Brexit done , Still in the ECHR ,still have part of the UK in the single market .
The downsides of Brexit were always going to be immediate ,the plus points  more  long term . The remoaners need to stop wetting themselves .

Moving into the World , Freedom and Democracy still works for me  ,the vision isnt the problem ,the Tories are

Putting aside membership of the ECHR (which was never anything to do with the EEC or EU), what should we have expected as these immediate Brexit downsides, and what should we now be looking forward to as the long-term plus points? And how long must we wait for them to arrive or be realised...?

[patman post]

The sewage issue was caused by excessive rain making the tanks flood over, nothing to do with Brexit. But why let facts get in the way!!

Yes — that's the excuse for the latest releases of raw sewage being pumped into Britain's seas and rivers.

But this has been going on for years — in fact, water companies have pumped raw sewage into seas and rivers for more than nine million hours since 2016. This year the EA issued warnings to holidaymakers to avoid dozens of beaches across England and Wales.
https://news.sky.com/story/huge-increase-in-raw-sewage-released-into-uk-waterways-and-sea-data-reveals-12677730

Southern Water was fines £90m last year for widespread pollution after pleading guilty to more than 6,000 unpermitted sewage discharges between 2010 and 2015.

Data released by the Environment Agency [in March] showed that 10 water companies covering England were releasing raw sewage into waterways for hundreds of thousands of hours in 2021. The 372,533 spills were recorded only on those overflows where event duration monitors were in place: 12,608 of the 14,707 overflows, or 89%.

More than 60 discharges a year from an overflow are considered too high and should trigger an investigation. On average, 14% of discharges from the 10 water companies passed that limit.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/31/sewage-released-into-english-rivers-for-27m-hours-last-year-by-water-firms

The UK's Government and water companies no doubt feel safer now the EU is no longer breathing down their necks over sewage pollution. But there's still hope:
"UK sewage dumping could be breach of Brexit pact, says EU Commission"
https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/uk-sewage-dumping-could-be-breach-of-brexit-pact-says-eu-commission/

Just this August Stanley Johnson, the PM's father, has blamed Brexit for the UK's current sewage problem.

Speaking to LBC host Rachel Johnson, the PM's sister, Mr Johnson said it was down to his son's government for the staggering amount of sewage being pumped into Britain's waters.
https://www.nationalworld.com/news/environment/brexit-sewage-uk-regulations-stanley-johnson-discharge-seas-rivers-3815345

More info on these undestandable lapses that have been forced on the UK by "excessive rain" can be read up on in the following:

https://inews.co.uk/news/sewage-discharge-environment-agency-fines-jail-sentences-water-bosses-dumping-rules-1812136
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/15/government-fine-polluting-water-firms-slammed-hot-air-environment-agency
https://www.ft.com/content/09854cab-2be8-4d60-8259-40539d1985d6
https://environment.data.gov.uk/dataset/21e15f12-0df8-4bfc-b763-45226c16a8ac

[Streetwalker]

The Conservatives have been a huge dissapointment getting Brexit done , Still in the ECHR ,still have part of the UK in the single market . 
The downsides of Brexit were always going to be immediate ,the plus points  more  long term . The remoaners need to stop wetting themselves .

Moving into the World , Freedom and Democracy still works for me  ,the vision isnt the problem ,the Tories are