So, what was the point of Brexit?

[GerryT]

As usual you launch into some drivel that is nothing to do with the subject. Of course the U.K. needs immigration to a certain extent, but we need controlled immigration where we choose who enters. Not sure you know this, but Doctors and Nurses in the NHS don't work cash in hand, unlike the fruit and veg pickets from Eastern Europe that were here in their hundreds of thousands.

I think you should sort your own shit out Gerry before you start telling us what to do. The streets of Dublin are knee deep in beggars from Eastern Europe, what's your solution to that Gerry?

Well now you have the answer, introduce a system where all employees have to be paid via bank payment. That would capture cash payments and collect the tax revenue. In IRL if a person is being paid more than 3k and they don't have a tax clearance cert then the employer has to stop the tax at source.  There are so many systems that the UK Govt could introduce, if they wanted to.Those beggar's make a very good living, add on the state benefits and free housing. If people hand out lots of money then people will be there to take it. We have our own home grown beggars also, they must be hating the competition.
You see we let them in, you fly them to Rwanda.

[Nick]

No matter what a country does there will be a black economy and cheap labour. But you can introduce controls to try limit it, thats the action that should be taken, not closing the draw bridge.
You don't restrict the flow of all migrants, some are highly educated and required, the UK needs migrants, they don't all end up on the black market. Migrants are an essential part of any economy, the NHS is struggling to employ Nurses and Doctors, this problem is more pronounced since Brexit due to the new rules, less people are looking to travel and work in the UK. Seasonal workers are not low skilled, they are very hard to replace. I'm sure they would welcome a higher pay pack.

As usual you launch into some drivel that is nothing to do with the subject. Of course the U.K. needs immigration to a certain extent, but we need controlled immigration where we choose who enters. Not sure you know this, but Doctors and Nurses in the NHS don't work cash in hand, unlike the fruit and veg pickets from Eastern Europe that were here in their hundreds of thousands. 

I think you should sort your own shit out Gerry before you start telling us what to do. The streets of Dublin are knee deep in beggars from Eastern Europe, what's your solution to that Gerry?

[GerryT]

Course it's an immigration issue, if you can't stop cheap labour entering your country without any ability to track what they're doing you get a black economy and an exploited workforce.

No matter what a country does there will be a black economy and cheap labour. But you can introduce controls to try limit it, thats the action that should be taken, not closing the draw bridge.
You don't restrict the flow of all migrants, some are highly educated and required, the UK needs migrants, they don't all end up on the black market. Migrants are an essential part of any economy, the NHS is struggling to employ Nurses and Doctors, this problem is more pronounced since Brexit due to the new rules, less people are looking to travel and work in the UK. Seasonal workers are not low skilled, they are very hard to replace. I'm sure they would welcome a higher pay pack.

[Nick]

That's not a migrant issue, thats a domestic UK problem of labour enforcement. You might say woe is me for farmers, but if their production costs go up then it is the ordinary person that will see prices rising.
This was all foreseen, but brexiteers with their "they need us more than we need them" attitude has seen the slow down of the UK economy to well over 5% more than it's past EU members. Directly attributed to Brexit, nothing to do with covid or ukraine, everyone else had to deal with that also.
You mentioned in previous posts that UK Fishermen were doing much better post brexit, I did read that since the start of 2022, allowable quota for UK fishermen were up by x% but that it was in cheap fish types and overall the exporting to EU issues has caused more harm than gains.  Maybe you have something to show the fishermen are thrilled with Brexit.

Course it's an immigration issue, if you can't stop cheap labour entering your country without any ability to track what they're doing you get a black economy and an exploited workforce. 

[GerryT]

The issue we have with immigration is that farmers have been exploiting free movement for years, paying a pittance and keeping working in substandard conditions, all in the black economy. Now they have to be registered and pay tax, the farmers are woe is me.

That's not a migrant issue, thats a domestic UK problem of labour enforcement. You might say woe is me for farmers, but if their production costs go up then it is the ordinary person that will see prices rising.
This was all foreseen, but brexiteers with their "they need us more than we need them" attitude has seen the slow down of the UK economy to well over 5% more than it's past EU members. Directly attributed to Brexit, nothing to do with covid or ukraine, everyone else had to deal with that also.
You mentioned in previous posts that UK Fishermen were doing much better post brexit, I did read that since the start of 2022, allowable quota for UK fishermen were up by x% but that it was in cheap fish types and overall the exporting to EU issues has caused more harm than gains.  Maybe you have something to show the fishermen are thrilled with Brexit.

[GerryT]

Yes, 10 million extra people provides many problems.

You can c...., Iraq and so on. Everywhere.

Long post, but some comments. Yes the UK has 10m additional people that were non UK born, but to think they were all a burden is ridiculous. I read a while back that the average immigrant in the UK contributes more to the economy that the average UK national. That says it all, more people requires more services, yes. But the people you're talking about contribute more and are raising your standard of living, contrary to your belief.
Irish terror bombers, they were freedom fighters. You shouldn't have taken their land and killed millions of them in the first place.
The Irish are happy with taking migrants, what glue are you sniffing, what issues do Irish people have with Migrants ?

You miss the point, the UK is implementing a system to refuse migrants the chance to claim asylum. How many you take is another question, but kicking them to Rwanda is obscene.  You don't care but million of britons do.

Yes with America and most other developed countries once you're there you can claim Asylum. With the UK you can't. You have to be in the UK to claim Asylum legally. The UK has a short list of places that can be in the UK to claim Asylum, the rest have to go to Rwanda. Previously people showed in the UK, their Asylum application was processed and those eligible were allowed in the rest were returned. That way you control the numbers. No body is suggest you take everyone that shows up. 

I'm not confused what a migrant is. You might be, to help, what a UK person calls an ex-pat is actually a migrant. You should call your buddy's living in Europe migrants because that's what they are. Your idea what a migrant is belongs in the Nigel Farage bucket. America is a country of nothing but migrants. Name a country in the world that hasn't got migrants. Some of the most successful people are migrants: Einstein being one, your PM is the child of migrants, Freddy Mercury became a very successful migrant. Sergey Brin, Levi Strauss..migrants. The list goes on and on. You have a fear of bomb yielding child raping migrants, they exist but they exist in the UK long before any migrants came.

[Nick]

Do you ?  or is it that you have a lot of problems and its handy to blame immigrants.  Can you tell me how many immigrants you take in compared to countries of a similar size.  How has some of your industries fared since immigrants started to leave xenophobic UK ?
This site helps put perspective on it
https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/refugee-asylum-facts/the-truth-about-asylum/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAtvSdBhD0ARIsAPf8oNk8dgdOBcpjcstY2mPuqgV7BGf8B9pFbHZqcFiaJMIVt1OP0EkKWjwaAkcWEALw_wcB
Here's some snippets:
41% of displaced people are children
1% of global refugees are in the UK
There is no such thing as illegal asylum seekers under international law.
There is no legal way to travel to the UK and seek asylum
1,200 medically qualified refugees work in the UK
I seem to think you want to make it impossible for people to claim asylum in the UK. I also think alot of UK people don't agree that that's what should happen.
Well that's nonsense. 72k asylum seekers last yr. in the UK Ireland had 13k, germany took 1.2m, France 408k. I don't think you have an epidemic of asylum seekers.
You want and need immigrants. these being
skilled workers for finance/high tech/medical etc.. professions
medium skilled for industries such as food pickers, hospitality sectors
low skilled to take up positions in govt and increase the IQ of your politicians
Students to pay hugh fees

I'll assume you mean asylum seekers. You may not want to help but millions of UK people do. Don't pretend to talk for all of them.

The issue we have with immigration is that farmers have been exploiting free movement for years, paying a pittance and keeping working in substandard conditions, all in the black economy. Now they have to be registered and pay tax, the farmers are woe is me. 

[Baff]

Yes, 10 million extra people provides many problems.

You can crap on about racism if you prefer.

For every 6 houses, we now need 7.
For every 6 schools, we now need 7.
For every 6 hospitals, we now need 7.
For every 6 power stations, we now need 7.
And so on.

Plus there are social issues.
Culture clashes.

Look at the history of your own island.
800 years after migration from England you are still trying to war with all the migrants.
You hate their guts with a passion.

We have Rotherham rape gangs.
Muslim terror bombers.
Irish terror bombers.
Albanian sex slavers.

Great. Brilliant. No problem with any of that. Whoopee for immigration.



How many immigrants do we have compared to other countries?
Why would that make a difference?

10 million extra people is 10 million extra people.

Did you think this was some kind of a pissing competition?
Where presumably in your mind those who have the highest immigration problems are the winners?




The ability for people to claim asylum in this country is not a core concern of mine.
Thousands do every year.
Is there some magic number of asylum claimants you think we should be aiming for?
Should we be allowing you to decide who is worthy of our protection and who is not?
How many people we are willing to take in and protect?

If Germany does something, the UK should do it too?
So we can be more like the Germans?
Why is this a goal to aim for in your mind?

You have your own country, if you want more asylum seekers, invite them.



Your work visa to America was not an asylum claim it was a work visa. While there you could have claimed asylum.
Equally you could have gone on a tourist Visa.
We should also have tough standards for this. Why wouldn't we want to limit migration to our country?
Why would we want people who can't pay for themselves to come here?
What is the advantage to us in this?

Why wouldn't we wish to have less migrants than the millions who arrived here in the last ten or so years?



The legal standards for asylum claims have been watered down and most people here think they are too loose.
Perhaps millions of people don't think so. But tens of millions do.

You may seek to confuse the issue of migration with political asylum.
To pretend that all those tens of thousands of migrants crossing the channel from Europe are in need of political asylum.
They are not. France is a safe country and even their countries of origin tend to be safe countries.
They are just criminals looking to come to our country by criminal means and engage in criminal activity to support themselves when they get here.
Asylum seekers with a reasonable claim to it just rock up at the ports and airports. There are no Ukrainians on those smuggler boats.

This is a hot political issue and quite frankly even in countries like Japan where the amount of migration is only a tiny fraction of the amount here, it's still a hot political issue.
Migration is not very popular. The same story is to be found in all countries.
Germany, France, Italy, America, Japan, Australia, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and so on. Everywhere.

[GerryT]

Given that we have considerable immigration problems, a toughening up of our own system can only be a good thing.

Do you ?  or is it that you have a lot of problems and its handy to blame immigrants.  Can you tell me how many immigrants you take in compared to countries of a similar size.  How has some of your industries fared since immigrants started to leave xenophobic UK ?
This site helps put perspective on it 
https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/information/refugee-asylum-facts/the-truth-about-asylum/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAtvSdBhD0ARIsAPf8oNk8dgdOBcpjcstY2mPuqgV7BGf8B9pFbHZqcFiaJMIVt1OP0EkKWjwaAkcWEALw_wcB
Here's some snippets:
41% of displaced people are children
1% of global refugees are in the UK
There is no such thing as illegal asylum seekers under international law.
There is no legal way to travel to the UK and seek asylum
1,200 medically qualified refugees work in the UK

You seem to think we want to make it more easy for people to move here. 
We don't. We wish to make very much harder indeed.

I seem to think you want to make it impossible for people to claim asylum in the UK. I also think alot of UK people don't agree that that's what should happen.

We have had more immigration to this country in the last few years than you have population in total.
The idea is fundamentally not to make it as easy as humanely possible for people to emigrate here.

Well that's nonsense. 72k asylum seekers last yr. in the UK Ireland had 13k, germany took 1.2m, France 408k. I don't think you have an epidemic of asylum seekers. 
You want and need immigrants. these being
skilled workers for finance/high tech/medical etc.. professions
medium skilled for industries such as food pickers, hospitality sectors
low skilled to take up positions in govt and increase the IQ of your politicians
Students to pay hugh fees

I'll assume you mean asylum seekers. You may not want to help but millions of UK people do. Don't pretend to talk for all of them.

[Nick]

No, he didn't because the US would have laughed at the Visa reasons. Just par for the course, he saw it on TV.

Already done that one Sheepy, it's obvious to everyone he's lying. 

[Sheepy]

Apparently he once got a visa for the USA just in case his plane was diverted

No, he didn't because the US would have laughed at the Visa reasons. Just par for the course, he saw it on TV.

[Nick]

What?
ROFLLMAO.

So speaks a man who has never done it.

Apparently he once got a visa for the USA just in case his plane was diverted

[Baff]

Its simple for 40 or so countries because over the yrs they have agreed simple processes between them. For other countries, and prior to ESTA, getting into the USA is a pain. I remember going in 1988, prior to ESTA on a 3 month trip. That was a very lengthy process and did involve an interview, proof of funds and proof from an employer I had a job to come home to. Today, there are over 150 countries globally that have to do that travelling to the USA.

Given that we have considerable immigration problems, a toughening up of our own system can only be a good thing.

You seem to think we want to make it more easy for people to move here. 
We don't. We wish to make very much harder indeed.

We have had more immigration to this country in the last few years than you have population in total.
The idea is fundamentally not to make it as easy as humanely possible for people to emigrate here.

[Baff]

Nick you seem to think getting a visa is a breeze and no problem. For millions of UK citizens it is not. (Especially for getting to the USA even as a tourist.)

What?
ROFLLMAO.

So speaks a man who has never done it.

[Nick]

Nick it is shown on near daily basis on a Freeview channel that features immigration/customs from various USA airports and border crossing, plus others from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Eire, and Britain.

I've watched all those programs, including the US, Canadian and Australian one. Never has there been one where someone was arrested because their plane was diverted. 

I've looked on the border force website and it clearly states that in this situation, anyone with a valid ESTA will be allowed in and should return to their new flight, anyone else will be escorted to the chosen hotel and then bussed back for their ongoing flight. So you're wrong.