So, what was the point of Brexit?

[papasmurf]

You have a long history and indeed tradition of the ethnic cleansing of migrants.

So has England, back in 1190.

[Baff]

Your mixing up reality, We treat migrants exceptionally well, its the migrants that come and steal land, kill people, take over institutions and deprive the native people of the vote, owning a house, speaking their language, being refused an education, being refused to chose their religion and killed in their millions, driven from their country in their millions. Its those types of immigrants we have an issue with. Would you not agree, would you not do exactly the same.
No the UK is really a bit of a sh1t hole. But the people of the UK are great, I know many and regard them as good friends. But you have a Govt and ruling class that take advantage. You don't seem to see it, but the average UK person is generous, kind, friendly and fun loving. Pity you don't have a political class that reflected that.
The UK doesn't have the majority on immigration, millions of people emigrate every yr and all countries take immigrants. Do you think the UK is special ?
For the 281m refugees out there the UNHR have a system for processing these people, so unless you now want to leave the UK after Brexit you should follow them. I know you're special and better than any other country and rules don't really apply to you, for the rest of us: Remember these are rights, you have these just by the nature of being born. These are global rights that the UN recognises as a cornerstone, their not debatable nor can you cherry pick what you want.
In there somewhere is the right of any asylum seeker to chose the country where they seek asylum. Its not their next door neighbour and you can't refuse an asylum request. YOu can after processing determine if the asylum seeker is a chancer and refuse them asylum, but you can't turn them away.
The UK new rules don't allow direct asylum requests unless you are on a "special restricted" list, which really tests the UNHR charter, some say that alone is illegal. For illegal asylum (if there is such a thing but there is in the UK) seeker they have to request asylum in their centre, thats right, in rwanda. One way flights are provided, I presume a successful request the person would have to fund the 6,000km trip back to the UK. This again tests the UNHR to its limits.

If you think in regard to asylum seekers the UK takes more per head of population than EU countries, you are very very very sadly wrong. 

No, No.
Let's keep making this about you.

Your country is founded on ethno nationalism.
You have a long history and indeed tradition of the ethnic cleansing of migrants.


In regard to how many asylum seekers EU countries take, by any metric you choose to measure, that's none of our business.


The moral of this story is, I can be rude about your country and your people.
I can paint them as a toxic culture. Very very easily indeed.
And I could pop over to an Irish forum and do it all day and night just to bait them. If I hated them that much. But I don't.

I could of course paint a different picture of your country entirely. An equally true one.
But I'm not going to because you started this bad feeling. And you are going to persist with it.
We know you.



We've left the EU. We realise that disadvantages the S Irish.
Which isn't and wasn't our goal. For this we apologise and seek to make amends to an extent that does not place the prioritising of your problems over our own. (The very reason that we left in the first place.)

We also realise that for a lot of you, your cultural identity is wrapped up in painting us as your evil oppressors.
Despite than none of us have done any such thing to you. That this is just a history that you wrap yourself in and not something that has ever happened to you.


But if you don't buck up your attitude, you will be going to plan B.
Which is where you have to decide whether you wish to maintain peace in Ireland or stay in the EU.
Where you have to decide between your commitment to the GFA or your commitment to the EU single market.


You can keep trying to put this on us.
But all we have to do to make you grow up and take responsibility for yourself is nothing at all.

You want this to be a battle between the EU and us.
But if we give you the finger it simply becomes a battle between you and the EU.

So keep telling us how shit we are. That's really going to win us over.

You want to be in charge of our immigration policy? Tough titty. You are not.

[papasmurf]

So you're saying that NO EU citizen has worked for cash in hand because there is a U.K. law telling them what the law is. Using your logic we don't need any police because everyone follows the law.

You used terminology implying it was/is a huge problem with large numbers. I politely ask again where have you got that information. (I can't find anything to back up your contentions.)

[Nick]

Nick you have made some statements about EU citizens, I politely ask where you got that information.

Because it conflicts with this:-

Tax if you come to live in the UK - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So you're saying that NO EU citizen has worked for cash in hand because there is a U.K. law telling them what the law is. Using your logic we don't need any police because everyone follows the law. 

[papasmurf]

If you can't keep up with a simple conversation you need to take up knitting 🧶
I'm not explaining it again, ho back and read it, it's very simple.

Nick you have made some statements about EU citizens, I politely ask where you got that information.

Because it conflicts with this:-

Tax if you come to live in the UK - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

[Nick]

Really? Just where did you get the information that EU citizens don't pay tax or NI and stay under the radar clogging up the NHS?
I am asking a serious question. (For a start why would an EU citizen pay UK tax or NI or use the NHS?)
You comments need explanation as it is they sound like a Daily Mail rant.
If an EU citizen is legally resident in the UK they will be liable for UK tax and NI and entitled to use the NHS.
So you need to be more specific.

If you can't keep up with a simple conversation you need to take up knitting 🧶 
I'm not explaining it again, ho back and read it, it's very simple. 

[papasmurf]

Call it what you like Pappy, you are still a snitch

Only criminals use that word. 

[Borchester]

Only criminals use the word grass. I am a concerned citizen.

Call it what you like Pappy, you are still a snitch

[papasmurf]

I don't give a crap about the black economy, I'm explaining how EU citizens don't pay tax or NI and stay under the radar clogging up the NHS.

Really? Just where did you get the information that EU citizens don't pay tax or NI and stay under the radar clogging up the NHS?
I am asking a serious question. (For a start why would an EU citizen pay UK tax or NI or use the NHS?) 
You comments need explanation as it is they sound like a Daily Mail rant.
If an EU citizen is legally resident in the UK they will be liable for UK tax and NI and entitled to use the NHS. 
So you need to be more specific.

[Nick]

Only criminals use the word grass. I am a concerned citizen. Nick complains about the black economy but does nothing to stop large instances of it which badly effect people who are resident legally in an area.

I don't give a crap about the black economy, I'm explaining how EU citizens don't pay tax or NI and stay under the radar clogging up the NHS. 
HMRC comparing several different farms incomes will tell them nothing, they are all different sizes, grow different crops and have different head of livestock. 

[papasmurf]

I haven't attacked you at all, I've said you're talking crap, which at present still stands because once again you post something you can't or won't backup.
All you've done is outline ONCE AGAIN how you dobbed some workers in, and not explained any of your previous comments.

You state I am talking crap out of you ignorance yet again.   I stated how the black economy can be and is addressed by HMRC. The problem is they don't have the staff to do the job properly. 
HMRC can pick out a business "on the fiddle" by comparing it with similar businesses without the HMRC investigators needing to leave the office.  Other people get caught by advertising in shop windows and small adds in local newspapers.
To stay "under the radar," is now difficult as even buying materials for building work leaves a paper/electronic trail.

[papasmurf]

Nick has a point Pappy. Grass is something cows eat, not something a man does to his neighbours

Only criminals use the word grass. I am a concerned citizen. Nick complains about the black economy but does nothing to stop large instances of it which badly effect people who are resident legally in an area.

[Borchester]

I haven't attacked you at all, I've said you're talking crap, which at present still stands because once again you post something you can't or won't backup.
All you've done is outline ONCE AGAIN how you dobbed some workers in, and not explained any of your previous comments.

Nick has a point Pappy. Grass is something cows eat, not something a man does to his neighbours

[Nick]

Nick again you attack and insult me because you are ignorant. There is no such thing as not generating data, or being invisible. All that is lacking is HMRC enforcement staff, and the will to do the enforcing. The black economy is not all illegal immigrant based, they form a minority of it.
It took me three years of being called a racist, by the authorities and my then MP, when I complained about what were very obviously a large number of people working illegally. Eventually after three years a multi-agency raid discovered not only a large number of illegal immigrant workers, criminal gangers, modern slavery, and a wide range of illegal activities, the living conditions were disgusting.
I never got any thanks, and the raid and the results of it never got any publicity whatsoever.

I haven't attacked you at all, I've said you're talking crap, which at present still stands because once again you post something you can't or won't backup. 
All you've done is outline ONCE AGAIN how you dobbed some workers in, and not explained any of your previous comments. 

[Borchester]

Nick again you attack and insult me because you are ignorant. There is no such thing as not generating data, or being invisible. All that is lacking is HMRC enforcement staff, and the will to do the enforcing. The black economy is not all illegal immigrant based, they form a minority of it.
It took me three years of being called a racist, by the authorities and my then MP, when I complained about what were very obviously a large number of people working illegally. Eventually after three years a multi-agency raid discovered not only a large number of illegal immigrant workers, criminal gangers, modern slavery, and a wide range of illegal activities, the living conditions were disgusting.
I never got any thanks, and the raid and the results of it never got any publicity whatsoever.

Now the immigrants have been deported to live in even worse conditions back in their homelands.

Nice one Pappy