Don't pay!

[Nick]

Sometimes I am of the opinion — not that I'd voice it out loud of course — that what's needed is a few more P&O Ferries to knock some sense back into some parts of the workforce so that they throw over their supposed representatives and vote for bringing sanity back into the work place.

Industrial action (inaction?) is what's destroyed a fair few good British industries — eg, aircraft, motor vehicles, railway products, and shipbuilding in transport and advanced heavy industry.

Had the country not rested on its laurels after WWII, and the workforce feeling it was owed a living for limited commitment and effort, the U.K. could have been up there with Japan, Germany, and South Korea. As it is, it struggles to match France and Italy...

The motorbike industry is s classic example. 

Japan started copying motorbikes from all over the world, the Italians and Germans put money in their bike manufacturing and survived the Japanese attack. The English, with their usual arrogance thought they were untouchable. If you look at MotoGP, WSBK, WSSP and BSBK all win by Yamaha last year. The vast majority of all bike racing is won by Japanese bikes, even the countries that supported their bike industries cannot compete. 

[Nick]

Yeah problem is the P&O's of this world and they're not alone, I've seen the bad side of unions but the pendulum has swung too far the other way imo and practices are being adopted that are shameful.

No, what P&O did was illegal, you don't need unions to protect against that. Lawyers will eat that kind of stuff for breakfast and there is no reason to disrupt peoples lives to get justice. The only time you have to strike is when you haven't got a legal leg to stand on and have to resort to nefarious means. Like I said honour your contract or negotiate a better one. 

[patman post]

Yeah problem is the P&O's of this world and they're not alone, I've seen the bad side of unions but the pendulum has swung too far the other way imo and practices are being adopted that are shameful.

Sometimes I am of the opinion — not that I'd voice it out loud of course — that what's needed is a few more P&O Ferries to knock some sense back into some parts of the workforce so that they throw over their supposed representatives and vote for bringing sanity back into the work place.

Industrial action (inaction?) is what's destroyed a fair few good British industries — eg, aircraft, motor vehicles, railway products, and shipbuilding in transport and advanced heavy industry.

Had the country not rested on its laurels after WWII, and the workforce feeling it was owed a living for limited commitment and effort, the U.K. could have been up there with Japan, Germany, and South Korea. As it is, it struggles to match France and Italy...

[cromwell]

Like I've said a million times, you sign an employment contract and you honour it. If you want a change you either negotiate a new contract or vote with your feet.

Yeah problem is the P&O's of this world and they're not alone, I've seen the bad side of unions but the pendulum has swung too far the other way imo and practices are being adopted that are shameful.

[patman post]

Like I've said a million times, you sign an employment contract and you honour it. If you want a change you either negotiate a new contract or vote with your feet.

But too often these days, workforce pay and conditions negotiations require more than a polite exchange of memos or conversation round the table. Both sides can wield a big stick. Mass withdrawals of labour in an essential public service is an effective way of making a point.

Managers up to senior levels are comparatively easily replaced. They're usually singular, and engaging acting staff, of almost any discipline, is fairly simple, and meanwhile headhunting can take place...

[Nick]

So you wouldn't say , that we are not being held to ransom right now?  Most workers action is to combat being held to ransom. All Maggie did was let any one but the British worker control who it would be holding the British worker, general public to ransom.

Like I've said a million times, you sign an employment contract and you honour it. If you want a change you either negotiate a new contract or vote with your feet. 

[Nick]

Ha Ha joke of the decade,what is happening now?

I obviously meant through government, like Scargill tried to. 

[Good old]

Ha Ha joke of the decade,what is happening now?

I suspect that those in power would agree with him. It's always someone else's fault with them. It's the workers fault, it's the Russians fault. It's the NHS s fault, under manned  not efficient,  it's the Police,s fault undermanned , not efficient it's local government, under funded ,not efficient,   It's farting cows fault. Inflation is the workers fault if they don't stand by and watch their standard of living disappear. You didn't cause it, but you own it if you even ask for less than the inflation landed on you Oliver.

[cromwell]

We don't but that wasn't your point, you pointed the failure at Maggie and she wasn't to blame, again it was the unions. The unions kept trying to bring the country to its knees and that's why the utilities and the like were sold off. You can't hold a country to ransom if it doesn't own the utilities.

Ha Ha joke of the decade,what is happening now?

[Good old]

You can't hold a country to ransom if it doesn't own the utilities.

So you wouldn't say , that we are not being held to ransom right now?  Most workers action is to combat being held to ransom. All Maggie did was let any one but the British worker control who it would be holding the British worker, general public to ransom.

[Sheepy]

The irony with EDF is that it's owned by the French state, making a complete mockery of Thatcher's ideology about privatisation and rolling back the frontiers of the state. There has to be some degree of international co-operation on energy and big tech, but not to the extent of rolling over your nationalised industry to the the government of another country!

I would be in favour of renationalising major public utilities - electricity, gas, water. Failing that, any overseas organisation involved in a big way should be required by law to operate through a UK subsidiary based here with its finances in a 'silo' for clarity of auditing. Perhaps this is already what happens but I have no knowledge of it.

I don't much care Ducky I am making my own arrangements as I see fit, you have been offered a sensible solution for Longterm fresh water you can lower the sea level and create enough power to run it all, you can have batteries for your electric car which you can also produce in this country and export you can advance the electric rail network to move more goods and have large processing centres outside large cities, it only takes brains and determination for it to happen. I really don't care which government fecked up as they all did with their soap opera idealism. 

[Nick]

Why do we need the middle men?

We don't but that wasn't your point, you pointed the failure at Maggie and she wasn't to blame, again it was the unions. The unions kept trying to bring the country to its knees and that's why the utilities and the like were sold off. You can't hold a country to ransom if it doesn't own the utilities. 

[Streetwalker]

No they don't have us over a barrel,the govt could do what Baz suggested and set up a company to supply consumers.

I was saying how it is cromwell not as it should be 

[HDQQ]

We have always said selling off the basic commodities which a country relies on for basic survival was a huge mistake, you reap what you sow. I don't remember that, well how about when we said relying on the French for energy needs was a huge mistake.

The irony with EDF is that it's owned by the French state, making a complete mockery of Thatcher's ideology about privatisation and rolling back the frontiers of the state. There has to be some degree of international co-operation on energy and big tech, but not to the extent of rolling over your nationalised industry to the the government of another country!

I would be in favour of renationalising major public utilities - electricity, gas, water. Failing that, any overseas organisation involved in a big way should be required by law to operate through a UK subsidiary based here with its finances in a 'silo' for clarity of auditing. Perhaps this is already what happens but I have no knowledge of it.

[patman post]

Maggie policy was to have nuclear power stations, unfortunately the 'Green lobby' campaigned against it. We would have had 20 of the things by now if she had her way.

Germany also has a more powerful Green lobby that's caused it to shut down three of its six nuclear generating plants, and agree to close the rest by the end of this year. However, I think I'm right in recalling the Russian interruption of gas supplies has reversed that decision and is calling to restart a couple of the closed down ones.