Moral underpinnings

[Nalaar]

Effort can be one. Education another. Who you know another. Personal disater like sudden disability can play a part. But yes luck is a biggie.


And those with introspection who also hate hypocrisy are in my experience generally less brazenly hypocritical themselves, as they do not accept is as inevitable and natural as you seem to

Effort is more difficult to explain, but if you wish I can present as best I can in words how luck dependant it is.

Education is much easier - What factors determines a persons education?
To name four -
-Where the student were born. 
-The students household situation
-The abusiveness of the students teachers
-The students genetic makeup. 

Each of these four (and ofcourse there are many others) carry a huge weight, and are utterly out of the students control. To have the genetic properties associated with the ability to achieve academic success, or to not be put into a school with perverted and abusive teachers *is* in every sense lucky. 

If they did not accept the inevitability of hypocrisy then they would not be hypocritical. 

[srb7677]

What factors that are indpentant of luck contribute to success or failure?

Effort can be one. Education another. Who you know another. Personal disater like sudden disability can play a part. But yes luck is a biggie.


And those with introspection who also hate hypocrisy are in my experience generally less brazenly hypocritical themselves, as they do not accept is as inevitable and natural as you seem to

[Nalaar]

Luck certainly plays a big part in success or failure though is not of course the only factor.

What factors that are indpentant of luck contribute to success or failure?

As for hypocrisy, it is something we all have the potential for it is true, but those of us who despise it in others - instead of simply cynically accepting it as the way things are and ought to be - are more likely to try and avoid it in ourselves. And are more susceptible to changing our views if our existing ones are demonstrated to be hypocritical without there being a valid non-hypocritical reason for the opinion expressed.

Because whilst blatant hypocrisy can often be obvious, sometimes it is just a matter of wilfull misinterpretation, especially if the position you take can be logically demonstrated to be non-hypocritical

Those that despise it in others should despise it in themselves more so, someone who believes themselves to not be a hypocrite needs to introspect more thoroughly.

[srb7677]

I think the fundamental underpinning of all morality is 'suffering is bad'.

With this in mind the goal in any endeavour should be 'minimise suffering'.

Two other important considerations.
1) You are a hypocrite, and should remind yourself of this often. 
2) Luck is the deciding variable in all things.

Luck certainly plays a big part in success or failure though is not of course the only factor. As for hypocrisy, it is something we all have the potential for it is true, but those of us who despise it in others - instead of simply cynically accepting it as the way things are and ought to be - are more likely to try and avoid it in ourselves. And are more susceptible to changing our views if our existing ones are demonstrated to be hypocritical without there being a valid non-hypocritical reason for the opinion expressed.

Because whilst blatant hypocrisy can often be obvious, sometimes it is just a matter of wilfull misinterpretation, especially if the position you take can be logically demonstrated to be non-hypocritical

[Nalaar]

I think the fundamental underpinning of all morality is 'suffering is bad'. 

With this in mind the goal in any endeavour should be 'minimise suffering'. 

Two other important considerations. 
1) You are a hypocrite, and should remind yourself of this often.  
2) Luck is the deciding variable in all things. 

[Borchester]

.

Well, I believe that when I die I rot and you only get one go here and then you're a long time dead. But I don't need anyone's holy writ to know what I should and shouldn't do.

And you can't put it clearer than that.

Nice one John

[cromwell]

I'm known round here as a BNP Candidate so I guess I out-nazi Cromwell.

Nonetheless I recall in my teenage years as I drove down to pick mum up from her job, a young man with a Scottish accent and a rather worried look sat on a chair in the reception area of the port health authority and police surgeon's health centre where mum was the police surgeons receptionist.

Apparently the chap had just been put off a ship in the docks and was awaiting an ambulance transfer to the hospital up the road for an operation. I've no idea what, but the place he was going was the local specialist in ear, nose, throat, chest and respiratory issues

He was discharged from the hospital the following Sunday and mum went and fetched him, brought him home for Sunday lunch and drove him to the station to catch the train to his parents.

I found it a little strange at the time because she hadn't done anything like that before or since, but in her own words she said afterwards she hoped if I or my brothers were in the same shit someone would do the same for them.....

Without wanting to be seen to take a swipe at one or two of the regulars on here, it's a fact that certain religions espouse a certain behavioural code towards others, and more than a little suggestion is made in the various bits of holy writ put out by dozens of such organisations that rewards in an afterlife rather depend on adherence to that code.

Well, I believe that when I die I rot and you only get one go here and then you're a long time dead. But I don't need anyone's holy writ to know what I should and shouldn't do.

Got it in one.

[Nick]

The problem I have is that the Tories set about destroying the homesteads of a largely peasant workforce with Enclosure acts giving the farmland they worked their fingers to the bone to eke a living from to the wealthy and creating a starving underclass forced into that "work" for the benefit of the party members, and that attitude persists to this day.

And I am fully aware much of the worst if their attitude has been gleefully embraced by the mainstream left. Most of the evils of Tory ideology in place today we're actually invented by Gordon Brown

Hang on, from what Ive just read, the enclosure act came about in the 1750. Not sure how the Tories copy for that one. 

[Baff]

Live and let live.

Be like the mafia. If you don't mess with me then I won't mess with you.

Go out of your way not to piss people off. If people won't let you go around them, do not be afraid to go through them.


Be helpful but not servile.
Prioritise those you love most above all others.
Prioritise yourself. You cannot help others unless you are strong.
Be strong.

Be prepared.
Plan ahead.

Be polite and considerate but don't forget to ridicule stupidity.
Rewarding people for bad behaviour makes things worse not better.

Treat others as you wish them to treat you but don't treat unreasonable people the same as reasonable people.

Be positive. Project this.
Find beauty in all people. It is there if you look.
Surround yourself in beauty. Make your little slice of the world a beautiful place.

Maintain hope. Maintain self esteem.
Find someone to love. Love them.

[johnofgwent]

Of course certain individuals need protecting, but my gripe is with the whole Socialist mantra that 80% of the dossers hide behind because they're bone idle.

What percentage of the unemployed do you recon have a legitimate reason for not working? I would hazard a guess at less than a third. The evidence was shown when the Tories brought in UC, a system designed to force people who could work back into employment. They were streaming back to work.

The problem I have is that the Tories set about destroying the homesteads of a largely peasant workforce with Enclosure acts giving the farmland they worked their fingers to the bone to eke a living from to the wealthy and creating a starving underclass forced into that "work" for the benefit of the party members, and that attitude persists to this day.

And I am fully aware much of the worst if their attitude has been gleefully embraced by the mainstream left. Most of the evils of Tory ideology in place today we're actually invented by Gordon Brown 

[johnofgwent]

I'm known round here as a BNP Candidate so I guess I out-nazi Cromwell.

Nonetheless I recall in my teenage years as I drove down to pick mum up from her job, a young man with a Scottish accent and a rather worried look sat on a chair in the reception area of the port health authority and police surgeon's health centre where mum was the police surgeons receptionist.

Apparently the chap had just been put off a ship in the docks and was awaiting an ambulance transfer to the hospital up the road for an operation. I've no idea what, but the place he was going was the local specialist in ear, nose, throat, chest and respiratory issues

He was discharged from the hospital the following Sunday and mum went and fetched him, brought him home for Sunday lunch and drove him to the station to catch the train to his parents.

I found it a little strange at the time because she hadn't done anything like that before or since, but in her own words she said afterwards she hoped if I or my brothers were in the same shit someone would do the same for them.....

Without wanting to be seen to take a swipe at one or two of the regulars on here, it's a fact that certain religions espouse a certain behavioural code towards others, and more than a little suggestion is made in the various bits of holy writ put out by dozens of such organisations that rewards in an afterlife rather depend on adherence to that code.

Well, I believe that when I die I rot and you only get one go here and then you're a long time dead. But I don't need anyone's holy writ to know what I should and shouldn't do.

[Nick]

Hard work never hurt anyone well apart from the historical side of things, which nobody knew or cared about at the time. But they were a good reason why staff do need protecting from the pure greedy. It sounds like Steve is fine under those protective rules. I just think keep a balance on these things. It is about attitude I suppose. 

Of course certain individuals need protecting, but my gripe is with the whole Socialist mantra that 80% of the dossers hide behind because they're bone idle.

What percentage of the unemployed do you recon have a legitimate reason for not working? I would hazard a guess at less than a third. The evidence was shown when the Tories brought in UC, a system designed to force people who could work back into employment. They were streaming back to work. 

[HDQQ]

I describe myself as left-of-centre in relation to equality and fairness but a bit to the right on law and order (but against capital punishment).  

Individual freedoms are important but so are responsibilities and people shouldn't expect something for nothing except when they are genuinely unable to work or find work.

I've always believed in treating others as you would wish to be treated yourself (except when it comes to the last piece of Black Forest gateau!).

I'm all for green sustainable technology and think the pace of change now very exciting, although I'm not currently in a position to 'green' my own lifestyle - maybe in a year or two.

[Sheepy]

Lazy gits need it, why should I help them?
6 people in my household ranging from 17 to 55, everyone working full time. Are we special? Nope, my wife and I have instilled a work ethic into them all and they realise if you want stuff you get off your arse and work for it. My wife used to say to them as children when they fell over and cried, 'is your leg hanging off? No so get up'.

The vast majority of people find success through graft, the like of Stephen Fry, Hawking and Einstein make up such a tiny percentage, but undoubtedly they worked hard as well as having brains the size of planets.

We all know communism doesn't work, socialism also because it's impossible to separate the can't do from the can't be arsed to do. Strange how they all want the capitalist bird to regurgitate into the their mouths but hate the idea of capitalism as it would mean they'd actually have to do something.

Steve proclaims he does long hours, I dispute that, but I would as I run my own business. He advocated socialist values which as I said are society helps those who can't help them selves. I'll buy that, but as far as I am aware there is nothing stopping Steve from working 60 hours a week and not struggling. To me that is not a socialist problem.

Hard work never hurt anyone well apart from the historical side of things, which nobody knew or cared about at the time. But they were a good reason why staff do need protecting from the pure greedy. It sounds like Steve is fine under those protective rules. I just think keep a balance on these things. It is about attitude I suppose.  

[srb7677]

as far as I am aware there is nothing stopping Steve from working 60 hours a week

Actually there is a lot stopping me. Medical advice for one thing re my mental health. I have been told that if I work excessive hours I risk triggering a mental health crisis and being on the sick.

My employer, well aware of my issues, will not let me work that many hours, though I am already working a 50 hour week this week.

And in any case my employer rarely makes that much overtime available.

But anything for you to be able to label the less well off lazy gits I suppose.

So much for your own moral underpinnings. But predictable enough.