Natural Selection

[srb7677]

Nick hasn't said anything of the sort Barry. But tell me, when the earth is packed to the rafters and you're the man who has to create the policy to get the earth back to manageable numbers, what would your solution be Barry? The way I see it you've got limited choices: artificially cap peoples lifespan, stop people procreating or let nature do it's thing.

The only humane course of action out of those three is to reduce procreation by providing ready access to contraceptives globally and encouraging less children. Mandatory limits though would be far too draconian. In the west we are already almost there with children being born at a rate that only just about maintains numbers. In some western countries population is actually declining. But it is in the poorer parts of the world where population growth is most rampant, and this is where our focus on reducing the numbers being born should be.

[Nick]

Remember this?

Going on your Op there's much disrespecting people who live. We should just stop worrying about the weak and let them die, shouldn't we?

Or perhaps you are just stirring the pot on your own forum and don't really support what you have put in your OP.

Perhaps you can explain why we shouldn't close down parts of the NHS and just let people die if they have a terminal disease.
Privatise the rest for the strong people who will live.

Papasmurf, for his faults, used to often say that we are all one event away from needing support for the rest of our lives.
That could happen to anyone. Then the strong will become the weak. But Nick says, don't support them, let them die and clean out the gene pool, I assume?

Nick hasn't said anything of the sort Barry. But tell me, when the earth is packed to the rafters and you're the man who has to create the policy to get the earth back to manageable numbers, what would your solution be Barry? The way I see it you've got limited choices: artificially cap peoples lifespan, stop people procreating or let nature do it's thing. 

[Barry]

Throughout the whole of the natural world the weak don't make it. From the Cuckoo invading the Warblers nest to the runt of a litter expiring due to malnutrition.
Why do we not just accept this within our society, stop worrying about them and just let them go. I wouldn't apply this to African nations because they are being artificially held back by developed nation and a certain spotty faced 19 year old.

Everywhere there are fallers, some that don't make the grade, why not let nature take it course and stop keeping them on life support. The planet can't sustain it any longer.

Remember this?

No Barry, he had COVID. The same COVID that killed my mate and Derek still needs 24/7 care cause he can't do anything for him self.

We can argue the number and how they are calculated but dismissing the virus as nothing is disrespectful to the people who have died FROM it, and there has been thousands.

I've had it and it was nothing but that doesn't mean to say that is the case for everyone.

Going on your Op there's much disrespecting people who live. We should just stop worrying about the weak and let them die, shouldn't we?

Or perhaps you are just stirring the pot on your own forum and don't really support what you have put in your OP.

Perhaps you can explain why we shouldn't close down parts of the NHS and just let people die if they have a terminal disease.
Privatise the rest for the strong people who will live.

Papasmurf, for his faults, used to often say that we are all one event away from needing support for the rest of our lives.
That could happen to anyone. Then the strong will become the weak. But Nick says, don't support them, let them die and clean out the gene pool, I assume?

[Good old]

Diplomatic skills, excluding Africa I haven't expressed a view either way as far as I can see. But Ive been told my views are all kinds of things including fascist! Imagine if I had actually express a view?

I said what you wrote was as fascist as you get. You would help yourself if you made it clear you would not support any of the theory you put forward.

[Good old]

Ok, so you now know what I mean and the minds of the African governments, how arrogant!! They've no chance of getting electricity to the people, which BTW doesn't doesn't evaporate in the heat, but pumping water 'to the masses' is the problem.

Dirt cheap!! Really? Solar panels, inverters, battery packs and installation. This isn't just sticking a butterfly shaped panel in your garden so that you look out and see your Avatar garden. This is peoples lives, there had to be no single point of failure with redundancy, is it still dirt cheap? No it isn't, it's the most expensive form of energy, but who cares, nobody. But see how quick the world mobilises when middle class white people start dying in their millions from the Chinese Pox.

It's dirt cheap in comparison with the option of actually building more conventional power plants and trying to get electricity to them in another way , except maybe a dirty noisy generator , unreliable and prone to break downs, which in many cases they are still stuck with.
If it was not the case they would either go without or as should happen if they had the  will ,be helped to generate power as clean and cheaply as present technology would allow. If these governments felt a desperate need how clean would be in their hands, but they don't feel the need. Getting power to any remote location is going to involve some sort of option that can only be viewed as expensive.
The failure to modernise most of Africa, in every sense , is the fault of politicians mostly corrupt , home grown and supported by the corruption that has always lain at the heart of world capitalism. 
To try and blame the relatively modern concern for climate change for the woes of Africa, is completely laughable, but not so funny because you seem to believe it.  Where were these power stations 30, 40, 50, years past.? Where they are now .

[Nick]

Your diplomatic skills do you no favours,as the thread has progressed you do have a point regards over population.

Don't imagine as a so called developed nation we're that good,if you see children/adults who have been dealt a crap hand at birth who then need the NHS don't imagine the desire to treat the same as everyone else exists because it doesn't,there's a rule,unwritten it might be but it's let them go so in that respect you're not far wrong.

Diplomatic skills, excluding Africa I haven't expressed a view either way as far as I can see. But Ive been told my views are all kinds of things including fascist! Imagine if I had actually express a view? 

[cromwell]

Throughout the whole of the natural world the weak don't make it. From the Cuckoo invading the Warblers nest to the runt of a litter expiring due to malnutrition.
Why do we not just accept this within our society, stop worrying about them and just let them go. I wouldn't apply this to African nations because they are being artificially held back by developed nation and a certain spotty faced 19 year old.

Everywhere there are fallers, some that don't make the grade, why not let nature take it course and stop keeping them on life support. The planet can't sustain it any longer.

Your diplomatic skills do you no favours,as the thread has progressed you do have a point regards over population.

Don't imagine as a so called developed nation we're that good,if you see children/adults who have been dealt a crap hand at birth who then need the NHS don't imagine the desire to treat the same as everyone else exists because it doesn't,there's a rule,unwritten it might be but it's let them go so in that respect you're not far wrong.

[Nick]

Actively trying to stop is what you mean. That's as maybe. The majority of those governments have little or no intension of building power stations , never have, and absolutely no way of getting the resultant power to people living primitive situations. The failure to create water retention facilities and pumping stations, anywhere near capable of supplying fresh water to their masses , is the problem. The green lobby is nothing more than an excuse for a failure to not bring modern standards to their masses.
Yes you will find Bush clinics relying on a solar panel for their needs. It's dirt cheap mate, and I notice you quote one not the half dozen.or dozen that would make an altogether better job. Are you suggesting the lobby say only use one?only give them one? What purpose would that support, other than people like you ignoring Africas actual problems?
I have no massive axe to grind on the matter of climate change other than change is happening, and our activities may well play at least a part in it. From a practical perspective even if we acknowledge the human element, any action must be completely international.

Ok, so you now know what I mean and the minds of the African governments, how arrogant!! They've no chance of getting electricity to the people, which BTW doesn't doesn't evaporate in the heat, but pumping water 'to the masses' is the problem. 

Dirt cheap!! Really? Solar panels, inverters, battery packs and installation. This isn't just sticking a butterfly shaped panel in your garden so that you look out and see your Avatar garden. This is peoples lives, there had to be no single point of failure with redundancy, is it still dirt cheap? No it isn't, it's the most expensive form of energy, but who cares, nobody. But see how quick the world mobilises when middle class white people start dying in their millions from the Chinese Pox. 

[srb7677]

Which probably has more to do votes than anything else.

That is always the way with most politicians on any issue.

[Sheepy]

The green lobby is actively stopping African nations from building power stations, FACT.

The green lobby is actively trying to get Africa to embrace Solar energy. They are basically asking the poorest nations in the works to use the most expensive forms of energy, FACT.

The fact you say it's rubbish just shows your lack of experience and knowledge on the subject, I've seen it both in the flesh and heard the stories: clinics with one solar panel able to run either the fridge with vital vaccines in it or lighting.

Again, just words that mean nothing. For a start the green lobby is that powerful that no politician dares go against them or they'll be called a heretic.


As for solving climate problems, how are you going to stop the Earths axial precession, Sunspots, Solar flares, countless various orbits through the universe. But let's concentrate on Mr Woo's log burner!!


Congratulations Mr B, you managed to spell Christmas getting all the letters wrong. 🙄

Well, the green lobby ain't exactly running on gas, but apparently have their hearts in the right place according to our politicians. Which probably has more to do votes than anything else.

[Good old]

The green lobby is actively stopping African nations from building power stations, FACT.

The green lobby is actively trying to get Africa to embrace Solar energy. They are basically asking the poorest nations in the works to use the most expensive forms of energy, FACT.

The fact you say it's rubbish just shows your lack of experience and knowledge on the subject, I've seen it both in the flesh and heard the stories: clinics with one solar panel able to run either the fridge with vital vaccines in it or lighting.

Again, just words that mean nothing. For a start the green lobby is that powerful that no politician dares go against them or they'll be called a heretic.


As for solving climate problems, how are you going to stop the Earths axial precession, Sunspots, Solar flares, countless various orbits through the universe. But let's concentrate on Mr Woo's log burner!!


Congratulations Mr B, you managed to spell Christmas getting all the letters wrong. 🙄

Actively trying to stop is what you mean. That's as maybe. The majority of those governments have little or no intension of building power stations , never have, and absolutely no way of getting the resultant power to people living primitive situations. The failure to create water retention facilities and pumping stations, anywhere near capable of supplying fresh water to their masses , is the problem. The green lobby is nothing more than an excuse for a failure to not bring modern standards to their masses.
Yes you will find Bush clinics relying on a solar panel for their needs. It's dirt cheap mate, and I notice you quote one not the half dozen.or dozen that would make an altogether better job. Are you suggesting the lobby say only use one?only give them one? What purpose would that support, other than people like you ignoring Africas actual problems?
I have no massive axe to grind on the matter of climate change other than change is happening, and our activities may well play at least a part in it. From a practical perspective even if we acknowledge the human element, any action must be completely international.

[Nick]

That's generally rubbish. Yes they have faeces in their water, yes they cook on open fires. But to say the green lobby is the cause of hundreds of years of neglect of these peoples needs , which is what it actually is, is rubbish.

The green lobby is actively stopping African nations from building power stations, FACT.

The green lobby is actively trying to get Africa to embrace Solar energy. They are basically asking the poorest nations in the works to use the most expensive forms of energy, FACT. 

The fact you say it's rubbish just shows your lack of experience and knowledge on the subject, I've seen it both in the flesh and heard the stories: clinics with one solar panel able to run either the fridge with vital vaccines in it or lighting. 

The green lobby is just another excuse  for the extreme bad leadership supported by the failure of multinational interests to do more than support that bad leadership , whilst removing natural sources of wealth.
The fact being that as in the rest of the world very little of any  return for having access to that wealth drips down to basics. In Africas case less so than else where . And gets nowhere near solving problems of clean water or power for the masses.or indeed the poverty suffered in general.
Solving the worlds climate problems may introduce challenges to every form of economy but the lobby for cleaner energy certainly is not Africas real problem.

Again, just words that mean nothing. For a start the green lobby is that powerful that no politician dares go against them or they'll be called a heretic. 


As for solving climate problems, how are you going to stop the Earths axial precession, Sunspots, Solar flares, countless various orbits through the universe. But let's concentrate on Mr Woo's log burner!!


Congratulations Mr B, you managed to spell Christmas getting all the letters wrong. 🙄 

[patman post]

Sorry folks limiting births won't happen.

True, I thought we were content with two...

[Good old]

Just to comment on the Africa situation, a million children die each year through drinking dirty water with faeces in it. Almost a million women die from smoke inhalation through cooking on open fires indoors. All because the green lobby refuses to let Africa develop, and yes, a spotty herbert is front and centre of that movement.

That's generally rubbish. Yes they have faeces in their water, yes they cook on open fires. But to say the green lobby is the cause of hundreds of years of neglect of these peoples needs , which is what it actually is, is rubbish.
The green lobby is just another excuse  for the extreme bad leadership supported by the failure of multinational interests to do more than support that bad leadership , whilst removing natural sources of wealth.
The fact being that as in the rest of the world very little of any  return for having access to that wealth drips down to basics. In Africas case less so than else where . And gets nowhere near solving problems of clean water or power for the masses.or indeed the poverty suffered in general.
Solving the worlds climate problems may introduce challenges to every form of economy but the lobby for cleaner energy certainly is not Africas real problem.

[srb7677]

Sorry folks limiting births won't happen.

It cannot be enforced by law. But it can be encouraged by societal and economic measures as well as ready access to contraceptives.

I know that you probably believe it is our moral duty to multiply because it says so in the Bible, but populations were very thin on the ground when that was written. Our numbers today are damaging the planet and showing signs of overwhelming resources.

You think it is all somehow part of God's plan so nothing to worry about. Those of us who lack such a conviction cannot afford to be so complacent.