EU fuel pricing

[Good old]

So now your link has incorrect figures does it, cause that's what Borky has used.

Borkies 12% is the spike for Covid it's not a true reflection of the twelve year period. 9.8 actually and didn't increase until Covid. Getting desperate are you.

[Nick]

I,ll just call you old fashioned because that's not the correct figures applied to the whole period.

So now your link has incorrect figures does it, cause that's what Borky has used. 

[Good old]

How wrong you can be. I have never despised the NHS until recent years when it had become obvious that it is no longer functioning. Just to give you an experience I ran a business for 46 years. There comes a point where you start to hand over. At that point there is a danger of losing the control. If someone in the chain is less than able it can be detrimental. Some who have run businesses know that suddenly it becomes an animal that takes on a life of its own and suddenly drastic action has to be taken. I ran a business through 2 recessions and believe me it takes some nerve to make those adjustments to save the business overall. The NHS is badly served by those in charge, but try to make those adjustments from Government level and suddenly there's mayhem not only from the NHS but the public simply because they don't understand the concept.
I believe there are too many very comfortable leaders in the NHS who over the years have feathered their nests very nicely thank you to the detriment of the whole organisation. There is a culture in the NHS that funds will for ever increase so they have no need to really honestly look at how it's run and see how it could be improved. It is so far now down the line of failure I despair that anyone has the will or the ability to get it on track and no Government/ideology is really in power long enough to see it through.

I still haven't got over the interview with the NHS leaders before the pandemic. Ineptitude doesn't begin to describe their performance. If that is the calibre of those in charge the NHS is done for and it doesn't matter which gov is in charge.

You as an individual may not despised the NHS, but the party you support always has. So who do they hand over to . Who can be trusted, ? Now there's a thing, we have Trusts,  running the show. Soon one to run the country. But seriously .Who  ? The quality people with the quality results that run the energy companies,  the sewage stricken water companies? The extortionate ticket priced Rail companies? The failing Prison security companies? The dental practises that will not serve? Oh what. about the failing care companies.
I haven't disagreed it could be done better. But how ever it's done the government must be responsible for its performance present private providers prove they are never not in need of government control. It's just not an excuse to blame those that run it now, when you have the power to remove them.
In private hands or not it must be funded fully if the service is to be first class . And governments absolutely support and insist on first class. That's the nub of this , Do we want first class for everyone. 

[Nick]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/317708/healthcare-expenditure-as-a-share-of-gdp-in-the-united-kingdom/
This is the true story since 20010 it went down until Covid.
Your usual bullshit, it rose in Labours term 1998-2010 it didn't rise again until Covid. Talk about heads in sand. Now you want Labours results as well to boost your own mistaken theory. Only Covid has stirred your pots ,no wonder we are in in the shite.

So we get abusive now do we, just cause you can't prove your point.
And now you move the goalposts to spend based on %GDP.

If the real value of spend on the NHS went up but the %GDP went down, that tells us 3 things.

1. The Tories spent more on the NHS.
2. The Tories significantly increased GDP.
3. Labour couldn't run an economy if their lives depended on it.

3 FACTS so don't bother posting some out of date stat that proves black is white.

Being a time traveller you should be able to do so much more 😂 

[Good old]

It is not a clear example of anything.

In 2014 the UK spent 10% of GDP on the NHS, in 2021 the figure rose to 12%.

Call me Mr Old Fashioned but I still think 12 is more than 10.

I,ll just call you old fashioned because that's not the correct figures applied to the whole period.

[Good old]

So you can't then, and espousing the same thing over and over doesn't change that.


This is the U.K. REAL spending on health care over the last 30 years. It's almost a straight line graph so stop your nonsense and show where the Tories are catching up on previous spending!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/317708/healthcare-expenditure-as-a-share-of-gdp-in-the-united-kingdom/
This is the true story since 20010 it went down until Covid.
Your usual bullshit, it rose in Labours term 1998-2010 it didn't rise again until Covid. Talk about heads in sand. Now you want Labours results as well to boost your own mistaken theory. Only Covid has stirred your pots ,no wonder we are in in the shite.

[Borchester]

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8798/
The example I gave you was a clear example of how the NHS has been under funded in real terms since the Tories took power, and the very reason the service now struggles to give a first class service,

It is not a clear example of anything.

In 2014 the UK spent 10% of GDP on the NHS, in 2021 the figure rose to 12%.

Call me Mr Old Fashioned but I still think 12 is more than 10.

[Nick]

Grow up Nick. The two examples clearly show how the NHS was underfunded for the periods given, cover the first 7/ 9 years of the 12 years of Tory rule. Which in turn shows that any extra spending now is no more than an attempt to cover for what should not have been cut in those years, The mere fact that we have fallen behind in international terms only illuminates that as a fact. And Brexit has little or nothing to do with the need to afford or increase health spending. As the problem has been created over the full twelve years of Tory rule.
As you can not understand the obvious,  it has to be gibberish, to you.that's an excuse . Read the links, they are very clear in their assessments. And that was in real terms the NHS budget was being cut year on year. Reap what you sow comes to mind if prepared for reality.

So you can't then, and espousing the same thing over and over doesn't change that. 


This is the U.K. REAL spending on health care over the last 30 years. It's almost a straight line graph so stop your nonsense and show where the Tories are catching up on previous spending!

[T00ts]

So who over sees this mismanagement? The NHS is not perfect ,that's a fact , but it's not an excuse for underfunding.  The government has the power of reform , the government in fact has the power to run the NHS, as it wants it run,. The only sacred cow is the concept of free to all. And that can be maintained if the funding keeps up to other comparable health services , it hasn't been.
Describing it as a monster overwhelming it's master is an excuse , for those that would kill it anyway. It should be for the government to reform it to better performance and not slowly kill it by starvation of the funds to even keep up with other G7 nations in its spend . Why should it implode if it's properly funded? Other countries spend more. If it needs running in a better fashion, and no doubt it does need that, then do it . But just saying it's a monster and I'm not feeding it is nothing more than an excuse to rid yourself of something you always despised and only want rid of.

How wrong you can be. I have never despised the NHS until recent years when it had become obvious that it is no longer functioning. Just to give you an experience I ran a business for 46 years. There comes a point where you start to hand over. At that point there is a danger of losing the control. If someone in the chain is less than able it can be detrimental. Some who have run businesses know that suddenly it becomes an animal that takes on a life of its own and suddenly drastic action has to be taken. I ran a business through 2 recessions and believe me it takes some nerve to make those adjustments to save the business overall. The NHS is badly served by those in charge, but try to make those adjustments from Government level and suddenly there's mayhem not only from the NHS but the public simply because they don't understand the concept.
I believe there are too many very comfortable leaders in the NHS who over the years have feathered their nests very nicely thank you to the detriment of the whole organisation. There is a culture in the NHS that funds will for ever increase so they have no need to really honestly look at how it's run and see how it could be improved. It is so far now down the line of failure I despair that anyone has the will or the ability to get it on track and no Government/ideology is really in power long enough to see it through.

I still haven't got over the interview with the NHS leaders before the pandemic. Ineptitude doesn't begin to describe their performance. If that is the calibre of those in charge the NHS is done for and it doesn't matter which gov is in charge.

[Good old]

Don't you think that you are looking at the problem the wrong way up? Do you not see that mismanagement and demands for ever more funding has created a monster? I see today that finally they are looking at the overblown salaries of many at the top who have been instrumental in that mismanagement. At the same time my more recent visits to my local hospitals reveals a disgraceful degree of waste. Millions are being wasted on woke appointments at high salaries. The terms Women are being carefully erased from medical advice for female ailments. There has to be a root and branch overhaul of NHS trusts - if only there was someone with the guts to do it. For too long it has been treated like a sacred cow and the end result is already being proved. Unless it is stopped it will implode and is already on that route.

So who over sees this mismanagement? The NHS is not perfect ,that's a fact , but it's not an excuse for underfunding.  The government has the power of reform , the government in fact has the power to run the NHS, as it wants it run,. The only sacred cow is the concept of free to all. And that can be maintained if the funding keeps up to other comparable health services , it hasn't been.
Describing it as a monster overwhelming it's master is an excuse , for those that would kill it anyway. It should be for the government to reform it to better performance and not slowly kill it by starvation of the funds to even keep up with other G7 nations in its spend . Why should it implode if it's properly funded? Other countries spend more. If it needs running in a better fashion, and no doubt it does need that, then do it . But just saying it's a monster and I'm not feeding it is nothing more than an excuse to rid yourself of something you always despised and only want rid of.

[Sheepy]

Grow up Nick. The two examples clearly show how the NHS was underfunded for the periods given, cover the first 7/ 9 years of the 12 years of Tory rule. Which in turn shows that any extra spending now is no more than an attempt to cover for what should not have been cut in those years, The mere fact that we have fallen behind in international terms only illuminates that as a fact. And Brexit has little or nothing to do with the need to afford or increase health spending. As the problem has been created over the full twelve years of Tory rule.
As you can not understand the obvious,  it has to be gibberish, to you.that's an excuse . Read the links, they are very clear in their assessments. And that was in real terms the NHS budget was being cut year on year. Reap what you sow comes to mind if prepared for reality.

She is right in the sense that the NHS has become an altar, where you all prey politically. Or should that be pray, or probably both.

[T00ts]

Grow up Nick. The two examples clearly show how the NHS was underfunded for the periods given, cover the first 7/ 9 years of the 12 years of Tory rule. Which in turn shows that any extra spending now is no more than an attempt to cover for what should not have been cut in those years, The mere fact that we have fallen behind in international terms only illuminates that as a fact. And Brexit has little or nothing to do with the need to afford or increase health spending. As the problem has been created over the full twelve years of Tory rule.
As you can not understand the obvious,  it has to be gibberish, to you.that's an excuse . Read the links, they are very clear in their assessments. And that was in real terms the NHS budget was being cut year on year. Reap what you sow comes to mind if prepared for reality.

Don't you think that you are looking at the problem the wrong way up? Do you not see that mismanagement and demands for ever more funding has created a monster? I see today that finally they are looking at the overblown salaries of many at the top who have been instrumental in that mismanagement. At the same time my more recent visits to my local hospitals reveals a disgraceful degree of waste. Millions are being wasted on woke appointments at high salaries. The terms Women are being carefully erased from medical advice for female ailments. There has to be a root and branch overhaul of NHS trusts - if only there was someone with the guts to do it. For too long it has been treated like a sacred cow and the end result is already being proved. Unless it is stopped it will implode and is already on that route.

[Good old]

Please point out this clear example using the out of date link, and could you explain the rest in English cause in its present form it's just gibberish.

Grow up Nick. The two examples clearly show how the NHS was underfunded for the periods given, cover the first 7/ 9 years of the 12 years of Tory rule. Which in turn shows that any extra spending now is no more than an attempt to cover for what should not have been cut in those years, The mere fact that we have fallen behind in international terms only illuminates that as a fact. And Brexit has little or nothing to do with the need to afford or increase health spending. As the problem has been created over the full twelve years of Tory rule.
As you can not understand the obvious,  it has to be gibberish, to you.that's an excuse . Read the links, they are very clear in their assessments. And that was in real terms the NHS budget was being cut year on year. Reap what you sow comes to mind if prepared for reality.

[Nick]

[highlight]The figures shown , are a clear example of how the funding of the NHS was in real terms cut throughout the period shown[/highlight], which is up until the last period, 2019 onwards,  this in its self tells that the reason the NHS is failing is because it has not even been kept up to the standards of comparable economies spending on health, it was up with most not now. Any extra now ,and most of the so called extra has yet to happen is merely trying to mend the harm done. And it's spending that was urgent Brexit or otherwise, Recent experience tells its struggling big time now ,lack of funds, lack of important personnel, and in the majority of the clinical staff lack of inflation coping pay.
So the figures I give are totally relevant to the whole story.

Please point out this clear example using the out of date link, and could you explain the rest in English cause in its present form it's just gibberish. 

[Good old]

Another out of date link, this one over 2 and half years old and pre-Covid.
The Tories have paid more into the NHS in every year since they took over in 2010, so your catching up on lost ground must be referring to the Labour years where they spent all the money.

The figures shown , are a clear example of how the funding of the NHS was in real terms cut throughout the period shown, which is up until the last period, 2019 onwards,  this in its self tells that the reason the NHS is failing is because it has not even been kept up to the standards of comparable economies spending on health, it was up with most not now. Any extra now ,and most of the so called extra has yet to happen is merely trying to mend the harm done. And it's spending that was urgent Brexit or otherwise, Recent experience tells its struggling big time now ,lack of funds, lack of important personnel, and in the majority of the clinical staff lack of inflation coping pay.
So the figures I give are totally relevant to the whole story.