EU fuel pricing

[Nick]

If you have the wherewithal to afford.....which many don't and unlike the example I gave they pay out.

You do know there are several cases in the USA where people have been insured and denied that cover with insurers fighting cases in the hope the delay will see the sick die.

I'm guessing you can't find any proof of that? It doesn't work like that, it's not pay as you go. You get invoices from each dept. for their particular service and then these are handled by the insurer. I'm not sure how the insurer could slow the treatment? They may hold payment in the hope the patient dies but your inference is that they had the treatment withdrawn due to none payment?

[cromwell]

Why has the US suddenly become the focus, as if I am advocating the US insurance system. I lived in the US and used their Co-Pay insurance system and as it happened it was cheaper than the NI system in the UK. If someone had needed serious medical care most likely that wouldn't be the case, but as it happenes everyone in my family is fairly healthy ATM.

I have private medical care in the UK and for the whole household it's £111.50 a month which is very reasonable.

If you have the wherewithal to afford.....which many don't and unlike the example I gave they pay out.

You do know there are several cases in the USA where people have been insured and denied that cover with insurers fighting cases in the hope the delay will see the sick die.

[Sheepy]

And excluding hearsay what do you know about it? Most likely nothing.

The anecdotes about checking your wallet before your pulse is absolute rubbish, my sister had an episode whilst visiting me and the only questions were do you have insurance and what is your zip code.

I assume you're talking about pharma where they charge huge sums for patent drugs? But are you going to give something away that you've just spent 3 years developing at a cost of million of dollars? The non-patent drugs are dirt cheap, like Viagra. I know this is hard for you but the non-patent copies are dirt cheap and don't shaft you!!

I already told what I know about it Einstein. It is awful. In fact, so bad the last 3 presidents have all tried to sort it out in some fashion or another but I guess you also know better than them. 

[Nick]

The US system is awful, it is a free for all money fest which is great if you have a bottomless pocket as you point out, which is exactly where the NHS is being led.

And excluding hearsay what do you know about it? Most likely nothing. 

The anecdotes about checking your wallet before your pulse is absolute rubbish, my sister had an episode whilst visiting me and the only questions were do you have insurance and what is your zip code. 

I assume you're talking about pharma where they charge huge sums for patent drugs? But are you going to give something away that you've just spent 3 years developing at a cost of million of dollars? The non-patent drugs are dirt cheap, like Viagra. I know this is hard for you but the non-patent copies are dirt cheap and don't shaft you!!

[Sheepy]

Inflation is primarily being cause by 2 factors. Peoples accumulated wealth due to lockdown as they couldn't spend as they liked and the fact that as they came out of lockdown the products weren't available so demand drove up prices.
The second cause is the price of oil, which is down to Putin. Inflation almost exactly follows the price of oil, oil up, inflation up.

Probably in your world that is so, I doubt it actually has much bearing on the facts.

[Sheepy]

Which illustrates a basic point. As a fairly well off person, such a monthly sum seems highly reasonable I am sure. But it is also unaffordable to millions less well off than you.

I am all in favour of your right to buy such insurance if you can afford it and want to. But that does not mean that insurance is the panacea for everyone else. The low paid would certainly struggle to afford it and would experience it as an additional heavy cost.

The US system is awful, it is a free for all money fest which is great if you have a bottomless pocket as you point out, which is exactly where the NHS is being led. 

[srb7677]

I have private medical care in the UK and for the whole household it's £111.50 a month which is very reasonable.

Which illustrates a basic point. As a fairly well off person, such a monthly sum seems highly reasonable I am sure. But it is also unaffordable to millions less well off than you.

I am all in favour of your right to buy such insurance if you can afford it and want to. But that does not mean that insurance is the panacea for everyone else. The low paid would certainly struggle to afford it and would experience it as an additional heavy cost.

[Nick]

If other governments pay less per capita it is because patients have to pay a lot more directly. Ours is free at the point of use though we pay via taxes.

One way or another the people still pays, but in the USA they pay vastly more than they would under our taxation funded system.

You are being intellectually dishonest in including in your calculations only the parts funded by taxes.

Per capita spending in most other countries, once you include direct charges or insurance, tends to be rather higher than here. The amount spent per capita is particularly enormous in the USA, though you claim otherwise because insurance is paying much of it instead of taxes.

The US experience tends to suggest that if you stop funding health via taxation and switch to insurance, most people excluding the wealthy will be paying a lot more with a lot less certainty of treatment and many of the poorest would not be able to afford to pay at all.

Which is all no doubt right up your street.

Why has the US suddenly become the focus, as if I am advocating the US insurance system. I lived in the US and used their Co-Pay insurance system and as it happened it was cheaper than the NI system in the UK. If someone had needed serious medical care most likely that wouldn't be the case, but as it happenes everyone in my family is fairly healthy ATM.

I have private medical care in the UK and for the whole household it's £111.50 a month which is very reasonable.

[srb7677]

Just checked U.K. V France and the U.K. government spent more on health per capita than France.

Yet again you argue a point that doesn't actually represent a meaningful picture.

25% of the adult population in France smoke, total lying 186,000 deaths a year from lung cancer.
14.5% of adults smoke in the U.K. with 35,000 deaths from lung cancer.

With massive disparities like that the French should be spending shed loads more than the U.K. but they don't.
So before you start throwing figures around about how much governments spend on healthcare per capita, have a look at the health and habits of the population. And with countries like Italy, you can't believe a word they say anyway.

If other governments pay less per capita it is because patients have to pay a lot more directly. Ours is free at the point of use though we pay via taxes.

One way or another the people still pays, but in the USA they pay vastly more than they would under our taxation funded system.

You are being intellectually dishonest in including in your calculations only the parts funded by taxes.

Per capita spending in most other countries, once you include direct charges or insurance, tends to be rather higher than here. The amount spent per capita is particularly enormous in the USA, though you claim otherwise because insurance is paying much of it instead of taxes.

The US experience tends to suggest that if you stop funding health via taxation and switch to insurance, most people excluding the wealthy will be paying a lot more with a lot less certainty of treatment and many of the poorest would not be able to afford to pay at all.

Which is all no doubt right up your street.

[cromwell]

If the nhs is a monster it is one fashioned by various govts over the decades more interested in projecting political point scoring rather than what is good for the people but that's no surprise.

It's not the nhs that's at fault but absolute tossers who have projected their ideals or again as with energy short termism that led us down the path of Pfi, trusts where it meant if you needed it the term national meant you were told to sod of back where you live and get treated there and there's no trust at all,the list of reforms that are anything but are endless.

Why isn't it administered cross party? The institution was once something other countries marvelled and aspired to but it's been buggered but not by the people at the coal face.

Please don't put private health care as the answer,the USA should show that especially for the poorest (stands by for some snide remarks about the poor as per yesterday) no poor doesn't make you a snivelling fool.

I know someone with a small business paid critical care insurance for years and diagnosed with cancer,without the nhs they wouldn't be here,the bloody insurance company denied their cover,having to fight when at their lowest ebb and finally won but only after the nhs had done what it can do best.


Rely on the private sector? Yeah right like we do for energy.

[Good old]

The USA doesn't have an NHS so how is the government spending more than the U.K. 

As for your ranking, read it and weep. Only one of your G7 rank higher than the U.K. 

Nick LPI are one of any number of people doing their own stats. This lot are primarily covering logistics apparently. Here's another example there are more they are invariably different. Obviously they use as much data as suits whatever it is they want to publish.
https://ceoworld.biz/2021/04/27/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2021/
What you don't see is us anywhere near the top , and at times we are seen to trail other EU countries  than France and Germany who do out do us, So much for mass failure in the EU if true. After  Covid no figures can be trusted. Only those recorded before ,you know the ones you say don't matter because they are out of date, maybe but they are factual . Covid and raging inflation will make assessing spending in the last three years completely unreliable if it's just numbers of Pounds sterling you count.

[Nick]

One thing that does bother me, we told everyone the outcome of Covid policy at the very start, but the Westminster party voted for it unanimously anyway, including the cost-of-living crisis that would follow and the major damage to the economy. So, pretending this is not all engineered is a total falsehood. Because they knew we knew.

Inflation is primarily being cause by 2 factors. Peoples accumulated wealth due to lockdown as they couldn't spend as they liked and the fact that as they came out of lockdown the products weren't available so demand drove up prices.
The second cause is the price of oil, which is down to Putin. Inflation almost exactly follows the price of oil, oil up, inflation up. 

[Nick]

No it does not ,all of these countries other than Italy spend a higher % of GDP on health . Most are producing better results than us right now. And France and Germany, definitely are. And going back a bit higher GDP has happened most years for many years under both Tory and Labour, only Tories have not raised the percentage regardless, so that was a none starter

The USA doesn't have an NHS so how is the government spending more than the U.K.  

As for your ranking, read it and weep. Only one of your G7 rank higher than the U.K.  

[Sheepy]

One things for sure sheep we won't get the correct figures. But most of it it went to middle men and outright fraudsters, in some cases reportedly on friendly terms with the people signing cheques.

One thing that does bother me, we told everyone the outcome of Covid policy at the very start, but the Westminster party voted for it unanimously anyway, including the cost-of-living crisis that would follow and the major damage to the economy. So, pretending this is not all engineered is a total falsehood. Because they knew we knew.

[Nick]

Ridiculous. Same percentage of GDP but their GDP is lower because their population is lower.

If you want to make a valid point instead of a nonsensical one, try and find the figures for spending per head in both countries.

Otherwise you are simply making pitifully obvious propaganda.

As for your point about the USA not having an NHS because it is insurance based, it is still an alternative health system often favoured by types like you but which costs a vastly greater percentage of GDP, whilst leaving millions without health cover. And you want that for us?

Just checked U.K. V France and the U.K. government spent more on health per capita than France. 

Yet again you argue a point that doesn't actually represent a meaningful picture. 

25% of the adult population in France smoke, total lying 186,000 deaths a year from lung cancer.
14.5% of adults smoke in the U.K. with 35,000 deaths from lung cancer. 

With massive disparities like that the French should be spending shed loads more than the U.K. but they don't.
So before you start throwing figures around about how much governments spend on healthcare per capita, have a look at the health and habits of the population. And with countries like Italy, you can't believe a word they say anyway.