So it's Truss

[Nick]

I can't even fathom what you are saying here given it it total bollocks. VAT is a tax that is put on top of something. That is to say if you sell something for £1, 20p is then put on top of it and the customer pays £1.20. And that in laymen is saying as the VALUE is £1, 20p is ADDED TAX and the customer pays the full total. It is a tax the customer pays, not the business given the customer pays £1.20 not £1. Also, it should be said if a business has taken "collection" of £100mn in VAT, it has to give the treasury the full £100mn. There isn't a cut of 40mn for the business. If the business has paid VAT out on something for its business it can claim that back which is why businesses keep receipts. Also, profits have nothing to do with VAT. It is most definitely separate. Profits are income minus expenses including taxation.

Anyway, back to how North Sea Oil corporation tax and VAT is the equivalence of a windfall tax please, your original claim that you are keen to ignore.

The reason you can't fathom it is because you clearly don't know the first thing about VAT. 

VAT is added to things, you got something right, but what you totally fail to realise is that businesses also buy things. 

If a business buys 4 things for £1200 there is £200 pounds VAT on that. 
He then makes those 4 things into something and sells it for £2000 + VAT (£400)

The business has paid £200 in VAT and added £400 in VAT so he gives £200 in VAT to HMRC. FACT. 

I will not be explaining any tax rules to you again, I'm clearly wasting my time. 

[B0ycey]

You are the horses' mouth?

Why boysie, I did not realise that I was speaking to a fellow member of HMRC

Which office do you work in and under which head of duty?

I don't work for HMRC Borky. Never said I did. But this is a government link anyway which is separate from customs. You wanted to know how we are going to get payment in October from a windfall tax and the link explains it better to you than I ever could.

[Borchester]

You what?? How its going to kick in? Because it is kicking in. I'll just leave this here. You may as well get it from the horses mouth.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/400-energy-bills-discount-to-support-households-this-winter

You are the horses' mouth?

Why boysie, I did not realise that I was speaking to a fellow member of HMRC

Which office do you work in and under which head of duty?

[B0ycey]

I imagine that I must be the HMRC you are referring too. Actually it is ex, but I doubt that tax collection has changed much in the 10 years since I retired. Or the last 1000 years for that matter.

Anyway Boysie, you clearly know more about these matters than I do, so if you would care to explain how your windfall tax is going to kick in in time for Liz Truss to hand it out as an energy subsidy by 1st October then we will be all ears. Maybe you could drop a line to the lads and lasses at Euston Tower as well. They probably won't realise how easy their job is until you explain it.

You what?? How its going to kick in? Because it is kicking in. I'll just leave this here. You may as well get it from the horses mouth.


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/400-energy-bills-discount-to-support-households-this-winter

[B0ycey]

If you know about tax then you should know that a business that collects £100K in VAT and spent £40K on VAT sends HMRC £60K in VAT PAYMENTS. That is how businesses pay VAT, something you say doesn't happen.


If a businesses profit rises by £100 million the government gets an extra £20 million in tax plus what extra VAT is involved.

I can't even fathom what you are saying here given it it total bollocks. VAT is a tax that is put on top of something. That is to say if you sell something for £1, 20p is then put on top of it and the customer pays £1.20. And that in laymen is saying as the VALUE is £1, 20p is ADDED TAX and the customer pays the full total. It is a tax the customer pays, not the business given the customer pays £1.20 not £1. Also, it should be said if a business has taken "collection" of £100mn in VAT, it has to give the treasury the full £100mn. There isn't a cut of 40mn for the business. If the business has paid VAT out on something for its business it can claim that back which is why businesses keep receipts. Also, profits have nothing to do with VAT. It is most definitely separate. Profits are income minus expenses including taxation.

Anyway, back to how North Sea Oil corporation tax and VAT is the equivalence of a windfall tax please, your original claim that you are keen to ignore.

[Borchester]

I know a thing or two about tax Nick trust me. This HMRC employee if he exists will know whose chatting shit anyway. But claiming tax back is different than paying it out in every sense of the word. In fact the whole point of claiming it back is so you don't pay it surely? But whatever. Live in this bubble that businesses pay VAT when I have explained twice already that it stands for Value Added Tax which the customer pays and then actually explain to us all here how the treasury will get their windfall tax with corporation tax and VAT which was after all your claim.

I imagine that I must be the HMRC you are referring too. Actually it is ex, but I doubt that tax collection has changed much in the 10 years since I retired. Or the last 1000 years for that matter.

Anyway Boysie, you clearly know more about these matters than I do, so if you would care to explain how your windfall tax is going to kick in in time for Liz Truss to hand it out as an energy subsidy by 1st October then we will be all ears. Maybe you could drop a line to the lads and lasses at Euston Tower as well. They probably won't realise how easy their job is until you explain it.

[Nick]

I know a thing or two about tax Nick trust me. This HMRC employee if he exists will know whose chatting shit anyway. But claiming tax back is different than paying it out in every sense of the word. In fact the whole point of claiming it back is so you don't pay it surely? But whatever. Live in this bubble that businesses pay VAT when I have explained twice already that it stands for Value Added Tax which the customer pays and then actually explain to us all here how the treasury will get their windfall tax with corporation tax and VAT which was after all your claim.

If you know about tax then you should know that a business that collects £100K in VAT and spent £40K on VAT sends HMRC £60K in VAT PAYMENTS. That is how businesses pay VAT, something you say doesn't happen.


If a businesses profit rises by £100 million the government gets an extra £20 million in tax plus what extra VAT is involved. 

[B0ycey]

Once again you change your story, all of a sudden it's changed to claiming VAT back. Until now you stated categorically that businesses don't pay VAT which is wrong.

As for claiming back VAT, you can only claim what you've paid out. So a business that provides a service I.E software engineering like I do pays very little VAT.
My costs are for hotels abroad and flights, which are zero rated, but you'd know that being a tax expert.

Perhaps you shouldn't post about subjects you know nothing about. I.E tax, especially when we have an ex HMRC employee on the thread.

I know a thing or two about tax Nick trust me. This HMRC employee if he exists will know whose chatting shit anyway. But claiming tax back is different than paying it out in every sense of the word. In fact the whole point of claiming it back is so you don't pay it surely? But whatever. Live in this bubble that businesses pay VAT when I have explained twice already that it stands for Value Added Tax which the customer pays and then actually explain to us all here how the treasury will get their windfall tax with corporation tax and VAT which was after all your claim.

[Nick]

You have a business that pays VAT and doesn't claim it back. Very successful.

And PAYE is an workers tax not a business tax.

Whether you paid cooperation tax on this so called very successful business (if we are to believe what we read on the Internet given you are clueless on tax), doesn't change the fact North Sea didn't pay anything in the last three years. Be honest, you couldn't be arsed to read the source material could you. And it also doesn't change the fact that 120mn is a significantly lower figure than 40bn.

Once again you change your story, all of a sudden it's changed to claiming VAT back. Until now you stated categorically that businesses don't pay VAT which is wrong. 

As for claiming back VAT, you can only claim what you've paid out. So a business that provides a service I.E software engineering like I do pays very little VAT. 
My costs are for hotels abroad and flights, which are zero rated, but you'd know that being a tax expert. 

Perhaps you shouldn't post about subjects you know nothing about. I.E tax, especially when we have an ex HMRC employee on the thread. 

[B0ycey]

You are wasting your time Nick.

As far as the brothers and sisters are concerned, the rich are sitting on sacks of gold, dressed in top hats, pin strip suits and spats and totally helpless in the face  of the tribunes of the people with their stern faces and tax rises.

Not at all. Plenty of businesses out there which will need a helping hand Borky. I do have issues with loopholes that don't close which large businesses exploit and actually lobby for and I do think it isn't exactly crazy to ask for energy exploiters to pay more tax in their record profits given they have been exploiting these loopholes for the past three years with this green initiative. But given you seem happy with corporate greed and rolling around flush of cash, when are you going to pay me this score you owe me?

[Borchester]

I'll keep it simple.

Businesses don't pay VAT, you're wrong. As usual you post something that is completely wrong and then in subsequent posts manoeuvre to what you should have posted in the first place.

Ah, you're now talking about Corporation Tax.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bp-pays-britain-127-mln-2021-tax-norh-sea-production-2022-06-24/

I run a very successful business and pay VAT, Corporation Tax and all relevant PAYE taxes, but you know better. 😳

You are wasting your time Nick.

As far as the brothers and sisters are concerned, the rich are sitting on sacks of gold, dressed in top hats, pin strip suits and spats and totally helpless in the face  of the tribunes of the people with their stern faces and tax rises.

[B0ycey]

I run a very successful business and pay VAT, Corporation Tax and all relevant PAYE taxes, but you know better. 😳

You have a business that pays VAT and doesn't claim it back. Very successful.

And PAYE is an workers tax not a business tax.

Whether you paid cooperation tax on this so called very successful business (if we are to believe what we read on the Internet given you are clueless on tax), doesn't change the fact North Sea didn't pay anything in the last three years. Be honest, you couldn't be arsed to read the source material could you. And it also doesn't change the fact that 120mn is a significantly lower figure than 40bn.

[Nick]

No Nick, North Sea didn't pay corporation tax in the last three years and I provided a link explaining that and VAT is "Value Added Tax". You pay it at the end and it is paid by the customer not the business. Businesses who purchase things can claim it back by the way. Hence why they keep their receipts.

Apart from you clear lack of knowledge on the tax system, which I will not spoon feed you again if you cannot be arsed to look it up, you still haven't explained how 120mn is equal to 40bn anyway. Explain to me here and now how the treasury will get their "windfall tax" via cooperation tax and VAT again.

I'll keep it simple. 

Businesses don't pay VAT, you're wrong. As usual you post something that is completely wrong and then in subsequent posts manoeuvre to what you should have posted in the first place. 

Ah, you're now talking about Corporation Tax. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bp-pays-britain-127-mln-2021-tax-norh-sea-production-2022-06-24/

I run a very successful business and pay VAT, Corporation Tax and all relevant PAYE taxes, but you know better. 😳 

[B0ycey]

I'll guarantee you nobody in the U.K. ever paid any cooperation tax, and you call me a novice 😂
Businesses don't pay VAT do they not?
BP paid $127 million in tax last year but you keep on getting your information from Comics. 😂

No Nick, North Sea didn't pay corporation tax in the last three years and I provided a link explaining that and VAT is "Value Added Tax". You pay it at the end and it is paid by the customer not the business. Businesses who purchase things can claim it back by the way. Hence why they keep their receipts.

Apart from you clear lack of knowledge on the tax system, which I will not spoon feed you again if you cannot be arsed to look it up, you still haven't explained how 120mn is equal to 40bn anyway. Explain to me here and now how the treasury will get their "windfall tax" via cooperation tax and VAT again.

[Sheepy]

I can assure you I vote for no change, and guess what? For the last 4 GE's I've got precisely what I wanted. Did you?

Nope, I got the usual bunch of incompetents floundering around telling everyone they had all the answers which as usual were based on who was the biggest liar. While they failed at everything, they said they could do.