So it's Truss

[Good old]

Doesn't affect their profits? More proof you're not in accountancy, something that should hit you straight away but doesn't.

How can paying the tax man someone else's money affect your profit? Only if VAT in is less than VAT out can VAT affect profit. I explained that. That is only likely if a business is not collecting VAT , and that only happens in a very small percentage of cases. Please yourself ,as it seems you do. But that's how it is. A VAT balance negative to profit is not the norm.

[Nick]

I certainly paid VAT and claimed some back while it ate into my profit margins. Is someone trying to say that my accountant was doing it wrong? Sadly she is passed on now but careful, she's the sort that would haunt someone that called her a cheat.

Of course it affects your profit T00ts, your accountant spends ages going through invoices and receipts, and you get a huge bill of your accountant. Something anyone in accounting would know. 

[T00ts]

Doesn't affect their profits? More proof you're not in accountancy, something that should hit you straight away but doesn't.

I certainly paid VAT and claimed some back while it ate into my profit margins. Is someone trying to say that my accountant was doing it wrong? Sadly she is passed on now but careful, she's the sort that would haunt someone that called her a cheat.

[Nick]

Isn't it bloody obvious from what else I said that in that case any monies paid to the tax man are not actually the businesses but the customers. So although they forward it to the tax man it is not their money, and for good measure does not affect their profits.? Obviously it isn't obvious

Doesn't affect their profits? More proof you're not in accountancy, something that should hit you straight away but doesn't. 

[Good old]

Isn't it bloody obvious from what else I said that in that case any monies paid to the tax man are not actually the businesses but the customers. So although they forward it to the tax man it is not their money, and for good measure does not affect their profits.? Obviously it isn't obvious

[Good old]

I take it back, you're not even up to making the tea.

Wrong way round but after 10 posts you finally acknowledge that businesses pay VAT, the more successful the business the more VAT.

Ten posts news to me.
And you wouldn't sweep the floor. Businesses pay VAT, to other businesses.and most successful businesses claim that back with some to spare from VAT collected. Any money paid directly to the tax office will not be theirs but the customers. Of course businesses pay VAT, but if they are good businesses that will be claimed back not be more than the amounts collected.
Several businesses over many years, multiple inspections, with not a single problem. Until Nick says I couldn't make the tea.

[Nick]

[highlight]Only if  it's own VAT expenses out weigh VAT collected does it actually pay any VAT[/highlight] and then not directly to the tax office.
In a successful business that rarely happens.

I take it back, you're not even up to making the tea. 

Wrong way round but after 10 posts you finally acknowledge that businesses pay VAT, the more successful the business the more VAT. 

[Good old]

A business collects VAT on sales ,services. It pays VAT on products and services it acquires.
It only pays anything to the  tax man if it's own VAT expenditure is less than the VAT it collects.
It in effect claims it's own expense in VAT directly from the amounts it collects.
If that is the case money paid to the tax man is not the businesses money, it is tax paid by customers to that business.
Only if  it's own VAT expenses out weigh VAT collected does it actually pay any VAT and then not directly to the tax office.
In a successful business that rarely happens.

[B0ycey]

White 1 sugar please.

Can't mate. Gotta go and do some work. You're distracting me!!!

[Nick]

I am not here to convince you Nick. And as it happens I would rather you think I make the tea. But given I just told you that businesses can claim VAT back after you posted something saying they pay VAT twice WHICH IS THEN followed up by a post snippet on how to fill in a VAT returns which specifically says businesses can reclaim VAT back, what exactly from that snippet is backing up anything you wrote or discredit anything I have wrote I wonder?

White 1 sugar please. 

[B0ycey]

Anyone who works in accounting and doesn't know how VAT either makes the tea or cleans the toilets, but definitely doesn't do accounting.

I am not here to convince you Nick. And as it happens I would rather you think I make the tea. But given I just told you that businesses can claim VAT back after you posted something saying they pay VAT twice WHICH IS THEN followed up by a post snippet on how to fill in a VAT returns which specifically says businesses can reclaim VAT back, what exactly from that snippet is backing up anything you wrote or discredit anything I have wrote I wonder?

[Nick]

Is that what you think...

Anyone who works in accounting and doesn't know how VAT either makes the tea or cleans the toilets, but definitely doesn't do accounting. 

[B0ycey]

I can only assume you make the tea cause you're 100% not involved in accountancy.

Is that what you think...

[Nick]

Well you're wasting you time because you are making it up. If businesses buy things and it paid VAT on it they can claim it back. My job is in accounting and I have an economics degree which explains why I am on here now during work hours and less on here on the weekend. That is more directed at you Borky but I thought I best also tell you too Nick which is why I know a thing or two on tax. I DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY!

I can only assume you make the tea cause you're 100% not involved in accountancy.

https://www.kashflow.com/support/kb/running-vat-return/

How to calculate VAT return
In a nutshell: the VAT return calculates the amount of VAT due on sales (called your output VAT), minus the amount of VAT you can reclaim on purchases (called your input VAT).
The resulting figure is the amount you pay. If the amount you reclaim is higher than the amount due, then you'll get a VAT refund.

[B0ycey]

The reason you can't fathom it is because you clearly don't know the first thing about VAT.

VAT is added to things, you got something right, but what you totally fail to realise is that businesses also buy things.

If a business buys 4 things for £1200 there is £200 pounds VAT on that.
He then makes those 4 things into something and sells it for £2000 + VAT (£400)

The business has paid £200 in VAT and added £400 in VAT so he gives £200 in VAT to HMRC. FACT.

I will not be explaining any tax rules to you again, I'm clearly wasting my time.

Well you're wasting you time because you are making it up. If businesses buy things and it paid VAT on it they can claim it back. My job is in accounting and I have an economics degree which explains why I am on here now during work hours and less on here on the weekend. That is more directed at you Borky but I thought I best also tell you too Nick which is why I know a thing or two on tax. I DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY!