How balanced is it here?

[cromwell]

And I don't want my country 'crapped on' by another!!! I voted Far Left.

Simple then,get a referendum,youof course need to win.

I most certainly did not vote Tory and I can say with some certainty neither did the exiled T. By the way, he is posting on another forum. Different name, same style.

Yes but not the one he adopted by some there.

[morayloon]

The poll is already being manipulated Steve. Two far left voters on the most Conservative forum on the Internet. There is me you and Pappy. Everyone else voted Tories in the last election and bow down to Johnsonism.

I most certainly did not vote Tory and I can say with some certainty neither did the exiled T. By the way, he is posting on another forum. Different name, same style.

[morayloon]

I put myself down as centre left,I don't want my country crapped on by others.....I largely try to respect other countries and have said many times the common market was a good idea similarly cooperation with our European neighbours was and is a good idea......the political project is not.

And I don't want my country 'crapped on' by another!!! I voted Far Left.

[srb7677]

monster raving looney seems appealing.

I think you did that last time, attracted by their clownish buffoon of a leader, the right honourable Sir Spaff Waffle, "member" (snigger) for Belle End

[Nick]

I did for the reasons stated in my previous post, because the only alternative was the Blairite centre left. I am not actually far left at all but had to work with Toot's abuse of nomenklature. I am neither Blairite nor communist so in actual fact am nether centre left nor far left, merely left.

You've ruined his conspiracy theory now. 

[Borchester]

Won't work Steve. Nobody wants to be associated with the Right wing even though the Tories are just that.

Other than my largely, upper working class and aspiration mates who always vote Tory.

It is, as one of them said, like piddling in the sink. We all do it, but it isn't something that we like to admit

[srb7677]

So there you go you would be lost without me! 

All in pursuit of my quest to stop others from being wrong on the internet. 

[T00ts]

Really? I can only think of five, six if you include Cromwell. That must be a lot less than half of the active members.

But whatever, any forum like this needs a mix of opinions to thrive. So it is good that there are left wingers here. And good that there are right wingers here. I have seen forums where everyone is on the same page politically. Everyone agrees with each other, there is very little debate and it all gets very boring. Such forums tend to decline and die.

So having as diverse a range of opinions from as many active members as possible is a very good thing, because disagreeing with each other is what makes it interesting to us and attracts others. It's fun, in spite of the inherent risk of things getting a bit heated sometimes. Far more interesting than echo chambers.

Whilst it is nice to have members agree with me and back me up from time to time, it is debating with those I disagree with that keeps me coming back. That's where the fun is. Because it is more challenging and emotive, and therefore interesting, to challenge a view you disagree with than it ever is not nod sagely at someone singing from the same hymn sheet.

So there you go you would be lost without me!  

[srb7677]

you could just say who would you rather have as PM, Truss or Starmer

Not so sure about that. There are many - including me - who'd want neither, and if they were the only options we wouldn't vote. All anti-Tory options must be implicitly on the table, not just one.

And in my time I have known Tories to vote Lib Dem as an anti-Labour option. It happens.

[srb7677]

I think you would be surprised. For me there are too many left wingers!

Really? I can only think of five, six if you include Cromwell. That must be a lot less than half of the active members.

But whatever, any forum like this needs a mix of opinions to thrive. So it is good that there are left wingers here. And good that there are right wingers here. I have seen forums where everyone is on the same page politically. Everyone agrees with each other, there is very little debate and it all gets very boring. Such forums tend to decline and die.

So having as diverse a range of opinions from as many active members as possible is a very good thing, because disagreeing with each other is what makes it interesting to us and attracts others. It's fun, in spite of the inherent risk of things getting a bit heated sometimes. Far more interesting than echo chambers.

Whilst it is nice to have members agree with me and back me up from time to time, it is debating with those I disagree with that keeps me coming back. That's where the fun is. Because it is more challenging and emotive, and therefore interesting, to challenge a view you disagree with than it ever is not nod sagely at someone singing from the same hymn sheet. 

[B0ycey]

If the Tories had a realistic chance of winning in your seat, would you vote for them next time or not? Yes or no?

I don't think there is another party that resembles the Tories who have a chance of winning a seat for tactical voting. The Lib Dems are taking votes away from the Tories not because people want to stop Labour getting in but because the Tories are so bad they can't with good conscious vote for them. But that isn't the thinking of the users on here. On here they are hardcore, I don't want a windfall tax, Lizzy please give me a blow job Tories. You can pretty much just stick with the question Tories or non Tories and that will do. But if you want to make it full proof you could just say who would you rather have as PM, Truss or Starmer and that will no doubt unveil where people are in terms of their politics.

[srb7677]

I wouldn't complicate things. In terms of what everyone REALLY wants to know, you need just two options. Tory or non Tory. That is will you vote Tory in next election or sympathise to their politics to such an extent you will defend them on this forum or will you vote for anyone but the Torys given they are useless. We have an awful lot of Tories on here so it is something like 10 to 1 in their favor. When you start putting terms like left or right then in general people don't like to admit they are on the right despite voting Tories so they start saying things like I'm in the centre or I am on the left socially and on the right economically or I'm centre Left or I am a floating voter. It's all a lie really because deepdown they are on the right but they won't say they are. And then that ruins the poll as it did here.

Makes a lot of sense. Maybe I should just ask whether members are going to vote Tory next time or not with a simple yes or no as the answers? But then again there are Tory supporters who don't vote Tory due to tactical considerations where they live. Somehow we need to differentiate between those who support the Tories and those who vote for them because they might not always be the same people. The former is what matters in terms of what members here actually think.

Perhaps something like this.....?

If the Tories had a realistic chance of winning in your seat, would you vote for them next time or not? Yes or no?

[T00ts]

I wouldn't complicate things. In terms of what everyone REALLY wants to know, you need just two options. Tory or non Tory. That is will you vote Tory in next election or sympathise to their politics to such an extent you will defend them on this forum or will you vote for anyone but the Torys given they are useless. We have an awful lot of Tories on here so it is something like 10 to 1 in their favor. When you start putting terms like left or right then in general people don't like to admit they are on the right despite voting Tories so they start saying things like I'm in the centre or I am on the left socially and on the right economically or I'm centre Left or I am a floating voter. It's all a lie really because deepdown they are on the right but they won't say they are. And then that ruins the poll as it did here.

I think you would be surprised. For me there are too many left wingers! 

[B0ycey]

Not exactly no. Because who you vote for under a FPTP system does not accurately reflect where you stand. Many people feel compelled to vote for something they do not support as a tactical vote against something worse. This phenomenon exaggerates the apparent support for the big two whilst minimising apparent support for anyone and anything else.

Were I running a poll my preferred options would be...

Far Right
Right
Centre Right
Centre Left
Left
Far Left

I think this would be a better version of Toot's poll but is too similar to it to be repeated now.

So I will put my suggested options out there on the table for you and/or others to comment on for my consideration if you wish.

Something like this....

1. Ultra-nationalist/Fascist
2. Thatcherite Conservative/Neo-liberal
3. One Nation Right of Centre Conservative
4. Centrist/Blairite/Liberal Democrat
5. Social Democrat
6. Democratic Socialist
7. Green/Environmentalist
8. Communist/Anarchist

By all means voice any criticisms and I will think about them.

If the maximum number of options are less than 8 I might need to condense them. How many options are allowed in a poll? Anyone got any idea?

I wouldn't complicate things. In terms of what everyone REALLY wants to know, you need just two options. Tory or non Tory. That is will you vote Tory in next election or sympathise to their politics to such an extent you will defend them on this forum or will you vote for anyone but the Torys given they are useless. We have an awful lot of Tories on here so it is something like 10 to 1 in their favor. When you start putting terms like left or right then in general people don't like to admit they are on the right despite voting Tories so they start saying things like I'm in the centre or I am on the left socially and on the right economically or I'm centre Left or I am a floating voter. It's all a lie really because deepdown they are on the right but they won't say they are. And then that ruins the poll as it did here.

[srb7677]

Some of those are what people get called by others. I can't see anyone choosing to self-identify as 1, 2, or 8, and 6 might seem a fantasy...

6 is not a fantasy. I am myself a democratic socialist and I assure you I am very real and far from alone. I know a few dozen personally in my locale alone.

And why wouldn't some people identify as Thatcherite conservatives? Many out there do. You yourself even said you would formerly have described yourself as one.

I agree few would identify as fascists, communists or anarchists and I just included them for the sake of fully rounded inclusivity. But it might make more sense to exclude those options and have simply Socialist replacing Democratic Socialist as an option.