Tories and the Church

[Borchester]

The interesting thing is the King James Version whose preface states it to be explicitly "authorised to be read in churches" doesn't say that, not have I ever been told that.

And wow betide the UNPROFITABLE servant, for the next verse states categorically they shall be cast into outer darkness where there shall be weeping and a gnashing of teeth.

Now ten out of ten for getting me to pick up and read Aunty Dolly Prestwood's Bible given to her about a hundred years ago by the Congregational Church in Penydarren she left when coming from the valleys to the big city, but come on you've got one of those modern translations that tries to pretend there were years between the triumphal entry and the crucifixion haven't you.

Truth is, the verse of All Things Bright And Beautiful that no one ever sings any more always had it right


"The Rich Man In His Castle, The Poor Man At His Gate,
God MADE them high and lowly, and ORDERED their estate"

Meaning it is god's will the starving starve while the rich feast. Bring it on, I say...

Cecil Frances Alexander wrote three of our most popular hims ( All Things Bright and Beautiful, There Is a Green Hill Far Away and  Once in Royal David's City), contributed money to schools for the deaf and dumb and worked for improvements in the local health and social services.

She said the wrong things while doing what was right.

[srb7677]

Yeah well I remember supporting someone  with a disability at an examination and chatting to a couple ,he was there because he'd appealed a decision,he'd worked all his life in a heavy engineering job and developed a heart condition.....he had basically been told to eff off and go back to work his specialist and gp were appalled.

The poor buggerwas nearly in tears talking to me.

This is an example of what is wrong in this country. The government, the media, the system they put in place and back, and the people who support and believe it all - like some here - tend to assume that genuine people are just skivers swinging the lead or layabouts.

Yes there are a few who have learned the unfortunate lesson that work doesn't pay and who have given up trying, but these are far less typical than the likes of Patman and Nick would have us believe.

Probably unlike them, I live on a working class estate full of people in poverty and most of those  all around me are genuine. The ones on welfare are either sick or disabled, and regularly finding that the system labels them layabouts until they win on appeal, or poorer pensioners, or those temporarily down on their luck who were working three months ago and will be again before long, or single parents juggling working with childcare, or people in work on piss poor terms and conditions and needing welfare support.

The so-called layabouts who don't want to work are relatively small in number and nothing like the majority they are assumed to be. And they are mostly people who have worked before and found themselves either worse off or no better off so no longer see the point. The problem here is a system in which work is not sufficiently rewarding rather than inherent laziness in most cases. After all, I myself work hard. But I wouldn't bother if I was doing so for nothing. Who would?

I would venture that Patman or Nick wouldn't work for nothing either.

[cromwell]

Exactly — trade union speak bollox — to confuse the brothers (and sisters where recognised as anything other than a source of dues).

Until the small Morning Star reading clique is recognised for the hoodwinkers they are and everyone who gets paid for working understands that there is no distinct working class — but a majority of the population who work hard for a living (that often keeps them at a standard below their equivalents in Europe), the country is going to be caught up in this phoney divide.

If fit, you make use of the advantages society offers, support the less able, but ostracise the spongers and shirkers Socialism encourages...

Yeah well I remember supporting someone  with a disability at an examination and chatting to a couple ,he was there because he'd appealed a decision,he'd worked all his life in a heavy engineering job and developed a heart condition.....he had basically been told to eff off and go back to work his specialist and gp were appalled.

The poor buggerwas nearly in tears talking to me.

[patman post]

Bollox

It would actually read something like this....

For unto every one that hath he shall have taken his fair dues accordingly: but for him that hath not, who through misfortune cannot striveth, or who striveth without reward, shall be given sufficient sustenance from the dues of him that hath...

Exactly — trade union speak bollox — to confuse the brothers (and sisters where recognised as anything other than a source of dues).

Until the small Morning Star reading clique is recognised for the hoodwinkers they are and everyone who gets paid for working understands that there is no distinct working class — but a majority of the population who work hard for a living (that often keeps them at a standard below their equivalents in Europe), the country is going to be caught up in this phoney divide.

If fit, you make use of the advantages society offers, support the less able, but ostracise the spongers and shirkers Socialism encourages...

[papasmurf]

Matthew 19:24 

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

[srb7677]

The way Socialism is preached by those who claim to represent the Working Class, the passage should read:

For unto every one that hath it shall all be taken away: but for him that hath slacked and hath not, shall be given all the abundance that others have worked for so that no one need strive nor pull their weight in this socialist utopia...

Bollox

It would actually read something like this....

For from every one that hath he shall have taken his fair dues accordingly: but for him that hath not, who through misfortune cannot striveth, or who striveth without reward, shall be given sufficient sustenance from the dues of him that hath...

[patman post]

The way Socialism is preached by those who claim to represent the Working Class, the passage should read:

For unto every one that hath it shall all be taken away: but for him that hath slacked and hath not, shall be given all the abundance that others have worked for so that no one need strive nor pull their weight in this socialist utopia...

[srb7677]

Rees-Mogg is a typical example of Tory Christianity.

He struggles to see the morality behind paid leave for working people yet manifested little problem with the moral depravity of Johnson.

Archetypical Christian hypocrite. 

People like this are not Christianity's best selling point, and would probably struggle to embrace the true nature of Jesus.

[johnofgwent]

The Bible is much maligned as people rarely bother to find out its real meaning. This scripture will make more sense if you put the missing word in.

For unto every one that hath faith shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not faith shall be taken away even that which he hath.

The interesting thing is the King James Version whose preface states it to be explicitly "authorised to be read in churches" doesn't say that, not have I ever been told that.

And wow betide the UNPROFITABLE servant, for the next verse states categorically they shall be cast into outer darkness where there shall be weeping and a gnashing of teeth.

Now ten out of ten for getting me to pick up and read Aunty Dolly Prestwood's Bible given to her about a hundred years ago by the Congregational Church in Penydarren she left when coming from the valleys to the big city, but come on you've got one of those modern translations that tries to pretend there were years between the triumphal entry and the crucifixion haven't you.

Truth is, the verse of All Things Bright And Beautiful that no one ever sings any more always had it right


"The Rich Man In His Castle, The Poor Man At His Gate,
God MADE them high and lowly, and ORDERED their estate"

Meaning it is god's will the starving starve while the rich feast. Bring it on, I say...

[srb7677]

It's been said that the Church of England is the Tory Party at prayer. I was sceptical, but then I heard someone read out Matthew 25:29

For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

This makers sense of the Tory leadership from 2017 on...

Makes sense of the Tory leadership from 1975 on pretty much....

[cromwell]

Toots it is NOT ridiculous statement. With the Tory government's callous and hostile treatment of disabled, poor and vulnerable people they are hypocritical to even enter a church.

There are people who are hypocrites who are both Tory and churchgoers,there are also people who are not Tory but churchgoers are hypocrites.

There are also people who are churchgoers who are not,this is a narrow field if you consider that there are those in the Labour Party who claim their faith yet happily laid the foundation or carried on the work of disabling the disabled more or making the poor poorer.

I know of both Tory and labour run authorities that pay lip service to enabling the disabled yet by a quiet tax make their lives poorer.

Isn't  Starmer a hypocrite in one way or another by his order of no comment on the monarchy which Clive Lewis will no doubt be censured for.

We're all guilty of this at one time or another,perhaps you should've contributed to Nalaar's recent thread on this.

[cromwell]

Toots it is NOT ridiculous statement. With the Tory government's callous and hostile treatment of disabled, poor and vulnerable people they are hypocritical to even enter a church.

There are people who are hypocrites who are both Tory and churchgoers,there are also people who are not Tory but churchgoers are hypocrites.

There are also people who are churchgoers who are not this is a narrow field if you consider that there are those in the Labour Party who claim their faith

[papasmurf]

What a ridiculous statement.

Toots it is NOT ridiculous statement. With the Tory government's callous and hostile treatment of disabled, poor and vulnerable people they are hypocritical to even enter a church.

[T00ts]

I understand the Tories and there is no way it is possible for them to follow Christ's principles.

What a ridiculous statement.

[papasmurf]

You don't understand Christianity or Conservatives.

I understand the Tories and there is no way it is possible for them to follow Christ's principles.