Let’s get ready to rumble.

[Nick]

Strawman, you show where the UK sent 350m or equivalent a week to the EU, because it has never happened.

Nobody has mentioned £350 million anywhere in this thread except you. We where discussing the EU budget FFS.

[GerryT]

The STRAWMAN strikes again.

Strawman, you show where the UK sent 350m or equivalent a week to the EU, because it has never happened.

[Nick]

Nick seriously you haven't grasped the basics. The UK doesn't pay 350m a week or anything near it. You have the rebate which comes of before the UK sends any money to the EU. Then you have money the EU gives to the UK for public spending in the UK, Then you have the research grants that the UK gets from the EU. Factor all that in and you get the UK contribution, around the 7.5b mark. Don't just read the headline.



https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/">https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-memb ... 5-million/">https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/



The UK Statistics Authority has said the EU membership fee figure of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is "not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year".



In 2017, the UK's 'public sector receipts' are estimated to be £4.3 billion.

So overall we paid in £8.9 billion more than we got back.

The Treasury figures note payments the EU makes directly to the private sector, such as research grants. In 2016, these were worth an estimated £2.3 billion, so including them could reduce our net contribution further still.

The STRAWMAN strikes again.

[GerryT]

You haven't explained the numbers, you still haven't told me who is paying the 165 billion, because you think that the budget just comes from 28 countries contributions, it doesn't, it also comes from import tax.



An Irish EU website, what could be more fitting.



http://eu2013.ie/ireland-and-the-presidency/abouttheeu/theeuexplained/howtheeuisfinanced/">http://eu2013.ie/ireland-and-the-presid ... sfinanced/">http://eu2013.ie/ireland-and-the-presidency/abouttheeu/theeuexplained/howtheeuisfinanced/



13% Gerry, now stop with your ridiculous maths.



 https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-one-biggest-contributors-eu-budget/">https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-one-bigg ... eu-budget/">https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-one-biggest-contributors-eu-budget/



Just accept you're wrong and throw your Toys R Us calculator in the bin.

Nick seriously you haven't grasped the basics. The UK doesn't pay 350m a week or anything near it. You have the rebate which comes of before the UK sends any money to the EU. Then you have money the EU gives to the UK for public spending in the UK, Then you have the research grants that the UK gets from the EU. Factor all that in and you get the UK contribution, around the 7.5b mark. Don't just read the headline.



https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/">https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-memb ... 5-million/">https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/



The UK Statistics Authority has said the EU membership fee figure of £19 billion a year, or £350 million a week, is "not an amount of money that the UK pays to the EU each year".



In 2017, the UK's 'public sector receipts' are estimated to be £4.3 billion.

So overall we paid in £8.9 billion more than we got back.

The Treasury figures note payments the EU makes directly to the private sector, such as research grants. In 2016, these were worth an estimated £2.3 billion, so including them could reduce our net contribution further still.

[Nick]

Go back and read my reply Nick, the EU budget is 165b, you say 13%, that would be over 21b. I've explained the numbers, you show how the UK paid 21b, it never did, remember that big red bus !



Don't you understand Nett contributions, you put money in and take some money out. What you contribute is whats left in. Every country puts in the same amount, a % of it's GDP, but some countries take back more than they put in Poland. When the UK leaves it's the Net contributions that are missed.



Do me a favour and go back to my post, this whole tangent discussion is not what my original post is about. Just you tring to quibble about %.

You haven't explained the numbers, you still haven't told me who is paying the 165 billion, because you think that the budget just comes from 28 countries contributions, it doesn't, it also comes from import tax.



An Irish EU website, what could be more fitting.



http://eu2013.ie/ireland-and-the-presidency/abouttheeu/theeuexplained/howtheeuisfinanced/">http://eu2013.ie/ireland-and-the-presid ... sfinanced/">http://eu2013.ie/ireland-and-the-presidency/abouttheeu/theeuexplained/howtheeuisfinanced/



13% Gerry, now stop with your ridiculous maths.



 https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-one-biggest-contributors-eu-budget/">https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-one-bigg ... eu-budget/">https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-one-biggest-contributors-eu-budget/



Just accept you're wrong and throw your Toys R Us calculator in the bin.

[GerryT]

I asked you a simple question Gerry and you totally ignored it and came back with more useless calculations. So, I'll ask again.



If the UK only pays 4.5% of the EU budget which is 1/22nd.

Who pays the other 95.5% seeing as the UK is the 3rd highest contributor paying the same percentage as the bottom 18 countries?



That means that 8 countries pay 95.5% between them which is roughly 12% each! How can the UK be the 3rd biggest contributor on 4.5% seeing as you think the EU budget is based on NET contributions?



If you come back from this one Gerry YOU'RE going to have to change YOUR name to Lazarus!!

Go back and read my reply Nick, the EU budget is 165b, you say 13%, that would be over 21b. I've explained the numbers, you show how the UK paid 21b, it never did, remember that big red bus !



Don't you understand Nett contributions, you put money in and take some money out. What you contribute is whats left in. Every country puts in the same amount, a % of it's GDP, but some countries take back more than they put in Poland. When the UK leaves it's the Net contributions that are missed.



Do me a favour and go back to my post, this whole tangent discussion is not what my original post is about. Just you tring to quibble about %.

[Nick]

Excellent Nick, you first try to pick me up on percentages and totally miss the substantive point of that text, I showed how you were wrong in my next post and all you can do is show how I should have written You're rather than Your. Really is that the level of your ! debating, surely you understood what was being said. Remember attack the post not the poster.

I asked you a simple question Gerry and you totally ignored it and came back with more useless calculations. So, I'll ask again.



If the UK only pays 4.5% of the EU budget which is 1/22nd.

Who pays the other 95.5% seeing as the UK is the 3rd highest contributor paying the same percentage as the bottom 18 countries?



That means that 8 countries pay 95.5% between them which is roughly 12% each! How can the UK be the 3rd biggest contributor on 4.5% seeing as you think the EU budget is based on NET contributions?



If you come back from this one Gerry YOU'RE going to have to change YOUR name to Lazarus!!

[GerryT]

Your as opposed to you're  :?:

Excellent Nick, you first try to pick me up on percentages and totally miss the substantive point of that text, I showed how you were wrong in my next post and all you can do is show how I should have written You're rather than Your. Really is that the level of your ! debating, surely you understood what was being said. Remember attack the post not the poster.

[Nick]

Your as opposed to you're  :?:

Careful Cromwell, don't want to hurt his head bone.

[cromwell]

Not making any sense. Care to elaborate.

Your as opposed to you're  :?:

[GerryT]

I don't own a looking Gerry!!

Not making any sense. Care to elaborate.

[Nick]

The maths is a bit confusing for you nick. Your looking at the gross contribution from the UK, but Thatcher negotiated that rebate about £4.2b, then there's the money the EU spends in the UK on the public sector another £4.3b and don't forget the research grants that aren't in the other paybacks, that's close to £2.3b. The EU looses the gross contribution but doesn't give the rebates/public sector/grants money to the UK so only misses the Net contribution. I

I don't own a looking Gerry!!

[GerryT]

Not even going to discuss your maths but if the UK only pays 4.5% of the EU budget who are the other 21 countries paying the same? There aren't 21 net contributors.



The UK pays around 13% of the EU budget, France 15% and Germany 20%.

The maths is a bit confusing for you nick. Your looking at the gross contribution from the UK, but Thatcher negotiated that rebate about £4.2b, then there's the money the EU spends in the UK on the public sector another £4.3b and don't forget the research grants that aren't in the other paybacks, that's close to £2.3b. The EU looses the gross contribution but doesn't give the rebates/public sector/grants money to the UK so only misses the Net contribution.

[Nick]

Your confused Nick. EU budget 165b, UK contributes approx 7.5b or about 4.5%.  EU Turnover 18.5T, the UK about 2.7T or about 15% of EU market.



The EU budget is going to fall from 165b to 157.5b all things remaining the same. That's not such a big thing. Remember that money is used to finance projects and manage the administration of the EU. The UK is leaving so there is less money needed to administer the EU. Hardly catastrophic. The key is the size of the EU market



The EU market place shrinking will impact the EU, this affects it's ability to strike better trade deals. This is something the UK needs to consider moving from a 18.5T market to a 2.7T market.

But remember It's the size of the market that's shrinking not the profitability of that market. But the size of the remaining EU market should hold onto it's current trade deals, again time will tell.



Finally for every Import the UK has from the EU the level of "shrinkage" in the EU is reduced, so we'll need to wait till Jan 2021 to find out how much the EU market actually shrinks. Either way the EU will still be the second largest market in the world, along with the big boys USA, EU, China. This utter nonsense of it being equivalent to loosing 18 countries is typical brexit hysteria.



Question for you Nick, the UK exports are 80% services, what trade deal will Johnson have in place Jan 2021 that includes services, because he hasn't a hope with the EU, what about other countries ?

Not even going to discuss your maths but if the UK only pays 4.5% of the EU budget who are the other 21 countries paying the same? There aren't 21 net contributors.



The UK pays around 13% of the EU budget, France 15% and Germany 20%.

[GerryT]

An excellent piece, especially the bit about the EU losing 18 countries not one.





Wonder what Gerry thinks of this, with his constant mantra that Brexit will cost the EU 0.7% of its budget.



"On a purely fiscal level, the loss of Britain's contribution will have huge implications for the EU's budget."

Your confused Nick. EU budget 165b, UK contributes approx 7.5b or about 4.5%.  EU Turnover 18.5T, the UK about 2.7T or about 15% of EU market.



The EU budget is going to fall from 165b to 157.5b all things remaining the same. That's not such a big thing. Remember that money is used to finance projects and manage the administration of the EU. The UK is leaving so there is less money needed to administer the EU. Hardly catastrophic. The key is the size of the EU market



The EU market place shrinking will impact the EU, this affects it's ability to strike better trade deals. This is something the UK needs to consider moving from a 18.5T market to a 2.7T market.

But remember It's the size of the market that's shrinking not the profitability of that market. But the size of the remaining EU market should hold onto it's current trade deals, again time will tell.



Finally for every Import the UK has from the EU the level of "shrinkage" in the EU is reduced, so we'll need to wait till Jan 2021 to find out how much the EU market actually shrinks. Either way the EU will still be the second largest market in the world, along with the big boys USA, EU, China. This utter nonsense of it being equivalent to loosing 18 countries is typical brexit hysteria.



Question for you Nick, the UK exports are 80% services, what trade deal will Johnson have in place Jan 2021 that includes services, because he hasn't a hope with the EU, what about other countries ?