How disappointing

[Nick]

I don't know about nasty Pappy, Nick is more ignorant. This forum is a TINY snapshot of the population on the whole. Unless Nick thinks 54% of the UK population are rabid Left wingers who can't comprehend what is going on then he doesn't live in the real world and is in a bubble somewhere. People can see what is going on and the direction the UK is on. 32% of people who voted Conservative last time are planning on voting Labour next time. Whether these measures are in place now is irrelevant. They could see the repercussions of them in mortgage rates, pension funds, sterling decline, inflation and glitter borrowing that was happening last week.

As for the burning house analogy, accelerant burns before the house @Nick. You can save the house before it catches on fire the same way we can save the economy by protesting and demanding change in policy BEFORE they are enacted.

Ignorant? I think the only ignorance is your knowledge of what an accelerant it. An accelerant is something added to a fire to speed up the rate of burning, so why would someone try and put a burning house out after they've just added fuel 🙄. 

[papasmurf]

I don't know about nasty Pappy, Nick is more ignorant. 

That is worse. 

[B0ycey]

The more Nick posts the more he shows how totally out of touch he is.  Typical I am alright Jack nasty callous Tory.

I don't know about nasty Pappy, Nick is more ignorant. This forum is a TINY snapshot of the population on the whole. Unless Nick thinks 54% of the UK population are rabid Left wingers who can't comprehend what is going on then he doesn't live in the real world and is in a bubble somewhere. People can see what is going on and the direction the UK is on. 32% of people who voted Conservative last time are planning on voting Labour next time. Whether these measures are in place now is irrelevant. They could see the repercussions of them in mortgage rates, pension funds, sterling decline, inflation and glitter borrowing that was happening last week.

As for the burning house analogy, accelerant burns before the house @Nick. You can save the house before it catches on fire the same way we can save the economy by protesting and demanding change in policy BEFORE they are enacted.

[papasmurf]

It's called reality, you should try it.

It is called ignorance on your part, and it will lose the Tories the next general election.

[Nick]

The more Nick posts the more he shows how totally out of touch he is.  Typical I am alright Jack nasty callous Tory.

It's called reality, you should try it. 

[papasmurf]

Nick, you are just chatting shit here big time.

The more Nick posts the more he shows how totally out of touch he is.  Typical I am alright Jack nasty callous Tory.

[Nick]

Nick, you are just chatting shit here big time. If your house was about to catch on fire, do you use the fire extinguisher and fire blanket to put it out or ignore it given at the time you have a house and nothing has changed yet?

But in any case, it should be said things had already changed anyway. Mortgage rates have already gone up, agree loans revoked and the services lender are offering reduced. Not to mention inflation. Double digit inflation I might add.

If your house is ABOUT TO catch fire there is nothing to put out, very poor example. 
The facts are that the government has just said some things, nothing has been implemented therefore nothing has changed. 

[papasmurf]

Nick, you are just chatting shit here big time. If your house was about to catch on fire, do you use the fire extinguisher and fire blanket to put it out or ignore it given at the time you have a house and nothing has changed yet?

But in any case, it should be said things had already changed anyway. Mortgage rates have already gone up, agree loans revoked and the services lender are offering reduced. Not to mention inflation. Double digit inflation I might add.

The hard fact is, it is expensive to be poor and the "official" inflation rate is well below the reality for the poor.
People like Nick don't have clue because they are either insulated from it and/or just don't care.

[B0ycey]

So if it's going to rain tomorrow you don't get wet today, so how are the poor affected?

Nick, you are just chatting shit here big time. If your house was about to catch on fire, do you use the fire extinguisher and fire blanket to put it out or ignore it given at the time you have a house and nothing has changed yet? 

But in any case, it should be said things had already changed anyway. Mortgage rates have already gone up, agree loans revoked and the services lender are offering reduced. Not to mention inflation. Double digit inflation I might add.

[johnofgwent]

Isn't the real issue here that they failed to realise that we are still in a country where democratic general elections must be held every 5 years at the maximum.

A lot of conservative MPs realised very quickly that if those were going to be the Truss government policies, they would be out of a job in 2 years from now when the electors booted them out.

This is evidence of total political incompetence - it took me about 5 minutes to figure out that the budget that everyone was getting so riled up about 10 days ago was never going to get through their own MPs in parliament.

So actually it doesn't matter what some extremists or Tory members on some forums think - in the end it matters what you can get about 40% of UK people to vote for (should be 50%+ but that's a different debate).

Well fortunately (and not spotted by me at the time, the disaster that was Cleggs Fixed Term Parliament Act is no more, so the opposition can no longer force a zombie parliament to remain in office. If by some miracle Truss's measures actually work she can choose to go to the country at a time of HER choosing subject to the five year maximum

I'm not sure it will do her any good, but it does give back to the prime minister a power they should never have been deprived of and the denial of which was gratuitously abused by the opposition which accounted in large measure for their humbling defeat in 2019

[papasmurf]

So if it's going to rain tomorrow you don't get wet today, so how are the poor affected?

For the poor it has been persisting with rain since May 2010. That rain has now turned into Tsunami.

[Nick]

It was going to change though Nick. You know people can foresee things right?

So if it's going to rain tomorrow you don't get wet today, so how are the poor affected?

[Nick]

Nick do you follow news and current affairs at all? (Seriously.) You are either well out of touch or trolling.

Nothing has changed yet, do you not understand that?

[B0ycey]

As things stand that has some logic, but it's not an attitude toward the Putin threat I agree with, I feel it's imperative  he is not allowed to think , after his making it clear it is a change in world order he actually wants , that we will ever roll over. And instead of a penny off tax, a penny on would help , as against hinder. I have no great regard for Sunak, but if they had gone with him any pain would have been of a different nature and the basics would have remained more secure.

Isn't that the problem. The West doesn't want to concede to Putin even if the end result is populism uprising and overtime public opinion moving against the agenda. Besides, the whole point of negotiation is that neither side gets what they want. So how about doing what is right for the people of the Donbass region. You already said it in any case. If the West is so confident that the people their are being oppressed and Russia are confident they are there for liberation, I don't see why there isn't a movement for a UN run referendum from both sides especially given the issue is in the UN charter that people have the right to self determination. Or we could just push for autonomy in the region which was signed off in Minsk. The problem is Ukraine wants to liberate the entire Ukraine in which the areas of liberation aren't even pro Keiv. So at some point they are going to hit a brick wall and be pushed back. And if Russia during the Winter train, fortify and push forward their new reservist army, Ukraine will no doubt lose all their recent gains anyway. I am a firm believer that the end result will be a negotiated settlement anyway and Ukraine as things stand have a few cards in their favor now. But eventually they won't and when that happens the US and the West in general will drop Keiv as they did with the Kurds because there is no way Ukraine are being entered into NATO and NATO isn't entering this conflict at any time. That being the case, depending how much Russia throw in this, they do have the strength to obtain their goals in time.

As for Russia wanting to change the world order, from their POV why wouldn't they? They have the things nations want like oil, gas and fertile grain and the US export debt and globalisation to their favor. It isn't going to be a change of world order anyway but a return of the iron curtain. Two nation trying to set up and promote their economic models and export and compete for other nations to sign up to it. 

[Good old]

The problem we have is priorities GoodOld. We sent 4bn to Ukraine and want to increase our military spending to 3% GDP. You can't do tax cuts when you want spending. And the electorate wants better services and will vote for that. If the government was serious for both security and welfare they would be pushing for a negotiated settlement in Ukraine and not putting petrol on the fire. Ultimately Ukraine and Russia will be negotiate at some point, the question is when. Because ultimately Russia are now retreating to firm up a defensive line and they have called up 300,000 reservists to back them up so it is a question of when Ukraine hits the brick wall rather than if.

As things stand that has some logic, but it's not an attitude toward the Putin threat I agree with, I feel it's imperative  he is not allowed to think , after his making it clear it is a change in world order he actually wants , that we will ever roll over. And instead of a penny off tax, a penny on would help , as against hinder. I have no great regard for Sunak, but if they had gone with him any pain would have been of a different nature and the basics would have remained more secure.