Brexit celebrations rub Remainers' noses in it, says

[Sheepy]

Well this is it — Johnson claims that there will be no alignment between GB and the EU but also no checks between NI and GB.  Those statements can't both be true at the same time ....and therefore he is either lying or lacks the commonest of common sense.



But we all know what Johnson is about by now.  He's not interested in saying anything on Brexit which is diplomatically credible in the eyes of the UK's supposed cherished neighbours — he is a guy who plays to the gallery and everything is aimed for his spin machine.  So of course he says there will be no alignment, because everyone will cheer Hardball Johnson. And of course he'll say there will be no checks between GB and NI, because Hardball Johnson called Softball May's deal a surrender agreement and he can't be seen to have actually surrendered further on the backstop by creating a frontstop.



I'm getting to the point where I believe this is going to end up — Comical Ali style — with Johnson standing in front of cameras at Warrenpoint Port insisting no checks are happening, while in the background you can see guys performing checks.  Such is the level of duplictousness existing in British politics right now, it wouldn't surprise me at all.



As for the Union, each of the devolved assemblies of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales has rejected the Boris Agreement and have of course been ignored.  After all, there is nothing in the UK's constitution that would compel the Westminster government to give these rejections any meaningful regard — nor do I imagine any Leaver on here would say that those rejections should in any way delay Brexit. Hence why it has long been galling to hear British Eurosceptics talk about Brussels 'diktats' when the EU functions as a Union of countries much more meaningfully than the UK.

For people who have tried winding us up for over three years,ignoring every bit of help we offered,which eventually led to you all being put in a position of having no power over the matter whatsoever,you sure still have a lot to say for yourself.

[papasmurf]

IF it becomes an option my wife and I will apply for EU associate citizenship.

[T00ts]

The Brexiteer hatred of Leo Varadkar has really been quite something to behold, and often there seems to be a sneering disbelief that puny little Ireland would dare defend its own interests.  



So you talk about Varadkar 'hoping to be the kingpin' in the trade talks.  Great.  So why don't you ask yourself this first question — why are those trade talks happening ? Did Varadkar instigate Brexit? No....he didn't ask for it and he didn't instigate it.  Those talks are happening because of the wholly domestically created project that is Brexit.



Then you can ask yourself — why have the talks dragged on so long already? Was it because of Varadkar? No...it was because the British government continued to lie about the Irish border before the penny eventually dropped that even little countries like Ireland don't accept magic fairy promises over legally binding agreements.



Then you can ask yourself some further questions about why Varadkar might be a central figure in these talks.  Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that the UK will continue to share a land border with Ireland and therefore this will form part of the EU's external border with the UK and therefore Ireland will have an important role in how the EU trades and interacts with the UK? Yes? No?



Respect tends to sow respect Toots. All Ireland has asked for from the UK over the last few years is realism and logic — in return it got patronising lies about a magical border that a 13 year old living in South Armagh could have disproven on an A4 page in crayon.  The lies are now continuing as regards the necessity of checks on goods, while Johnson contradictorily also promises no alignment whatsoever with EU rules.    



Despite all this, you seemingly lament Varadkar trying to assert Irish interests on a matter in which Ireland will be centrally involved in making work — despite the fact that this probably the most basic criteria of being a national leader.  Whether his Fine Gael party wins the upcoming election or not — the major issues at play in Ireland right now are housing, healthcare, pensions etc — there is no major debate over the Brexit strategy and there is no party who are going to submit blissfully to Boris Bluster any more so than Fine Gael.

I apologise I must have hit a sore spot. It doesn't alter the fact that the whole bluster coming from Ireland and the EU at the moment is all an effort to big up their game. They did it before and they are trying it again with their silly threats. At the end of the day we can still walk away. The EU can't.

[Conchúr]

Has anyone seen Varadkar's desperation? Once again he is 'playing to the gallery' in the great hope that he will once again be the kingpin in the trade talks. Sorry V the fear is showing once again and something he should digest on the diplomatic front. It doesn't do to insult us!

The Brexiteer hatred of Leo Varadkar has really been quite something to behold, and often there seems to be a sneering disbelief that puny little Ireland would dare defend its own interests.  



So you talk about Varadkar 'hoping to be the kingpin' in the trade talks.  Great.  So why don't you ask yourself this first question — why are those trade talks happening ? Did Varadkar instigate Brexit? No....he didn't ask for it and he didn't instigate it.  Those talks are happening because of the wholly domestically created project that is Brexit.



Then you can ask yourself — why have the talks dragged on so long already? Was it because of Varadkar? No...it was because the British government continued to lie about the Irish border before the penny eventually dropped that even little countries like Ireland don't accept magic fairy promises over legally binding agreements.



Then you can ask yourself some further questions about why Varadkar might be a central figure in these talks.  Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that the UK will continue to share a land border with Ireland and therefore this will form part of the EU's external border with the UK and therefore Ireland will have an important role in how the EU trades and interacts with the UK? Yes? No?



Respect tends to sow respect Toots. All Ireland has asked for from the UK over the last few years is realism and logic — in return it got patronising lies about a magical border that a 13 year old living in South Armagh could have disproven on an A4 page in crayon.  The lies are now continuing as regards the necessity of checks on goods, while Johnson contradictorily also promises no alignment whatsoever with EU rules.    



Despite all this, you seemingly lament Varadkar trying to assert Irish interests on a matter in which Ireland will be centrally involved in making work — despite the fact that this probably the most basic criteria of being a national leader.  Whether his Fine Gael party wins the upcoming election or not — the major issues at play in Ireland right now are housing, healthcare, pensions etc — there is no major debate over the Brexit strategy and there is no party who are going to submit blissfully to Boris Bluster any more so than Fine Gael.

[papasmurf]

Has anyone seen Varadkar's desperation?

Given how both North and South have been shat on by Boris I am not surprised.

[T00ts]

Has anyone seen Varadkar's desperation? Once again he is 'playing to the gallery' in the great hope that he will once again be the kingpin in the trade talks. Sorry V the fear is showing once again and something he should digest on the diplomatic front. It doesn't do to insult us!

[papasmurf]

Well, as I said elsewhere, I'm off to 'Spoons on Friday  and I shall expect a bit of a riot frankly.

I stopped going to the local Wetherspoons because the area in front of the bar was so filthy my shoes stuck to it, the service terrible, even when it had few customers, only one member of staff was able to change a barrel, the food menu was rubbish, and it is a route march to the bogs.

(I did not renew my Camra membership after they gave it a glowing review.)

[cromwell]

That's my very point though Cromwell — even among Brexiteers there is an acknowledgement that the Single Market as a concept makes sense.  This is the problem you now have, because once Boris 'gets Brexit done' there is essentially nothing to stop the Tories from going about re-establishing the workings of the old order. All they have to do — and ultimately from what I can see they are great at it — is just keep telling people how hardball they are being. They can make 50p coins and talk about Big Ben Bongs and dish out blue passports, carefully crafting all the patriotic trappings to keep Brexiteers convinced that this government are Brexit purists . . .while subtly maintaining or rebuilding alignment.



So if the Tories achieve Brexit and wax lyrical about how hard they have been, it sounds to me like people will buy into it.  But let's say as the next few years progress, the Tories agree to some boring old agreement on MIFID II or GDPR or Aviation Standards or any other boring thing that the everyday person doesn't get too worked up or emotional over — what will be said then?  Who will actually care ? Ultimately the Tories will say that they have done what the referendum asked — leaving the European Union.  They can then do whatever they want — and with each treaty a little bit more sovereignty is ceded and another rule or set of rules is taken on board.



You've said it yourself, you don't really seem to have an ideological problem with a common market.  But if you want one, you have to abide by its rules.  If you don't want to be a full EU member, then you cede control over having a hand in those rules. This is the war that you now all face as Brexiteers, a constant state of vigilance against a slow process of treaties turning the o a rule taker rather than rulemaker.

No I don't have a problem Conor,you have taken my post and altered it to suit your agenda.......oh well never mind.

[Conchúr]

Feck me conor , thats a first , a post of yours i have liked.!





This is exactly it , johnson will go all bombastic on friday to portray the fullfillment of brexit , and as evidenced from this forum , brexiters are buying into it big style.



That will then leave him free to sell our "brexit emperors a set of new clothes".



I have said all along that despite brexit being a gift to us the english keep giving , it will come down in the end to a choice for westminster , shafting brexiters in england or shafting the celtic nations and losing the union.



So far its one each , both the english have been shafted and northern ireland has been handed over to the eu like a sacrificial lamb.It remains to be seen how it plays out.



I was laughing reading the comments by barnier yesterday about johnson lying regarding checks on goods from northern ireland to the uk and vice versa.



He even drew up a map of where those checks will take place while johnson continues to deny it?!!







https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit/brexit-deal-latest-eu-irish-sea-goods-check-guide-northern-ireland-1375462">https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexi ... nd-1375462">https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit/brexit-deal-latest-eu-irish-sea-goods-check-guide-northern-ireland-1375462









https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51273187">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51273187

Well this is it — Johnson claims that there will be no alignment between GB and the EU but also no checks between NI and GB.  Those statements can't both be true at the same time ....and therefore he is either lying or lacks the commonest of common sense.



But we all know what Johnson is about by now.  He's not interested in saying anything on Brexit which is diplomatically credible in the eyes of the UK's supposed cherished neighbours — he is a guy who plays to the gallery and everything is aimed for his spin machine.  So of course he says there will be no alignment, because everyone will cheer Hardball Johnson. And of course he'll say there will be no checks between GB and NI, because Hardball Johnson called Softball May's deal a surrender agreement and he can't be seen to have actually surrendered further on the backstop by creating a frontstop.



I'm getting to the point where I believe this is going to end up — Comical Ali style — with Johnson standing in front of cameras at Warrenpoint Port insisting no checks are happening, while in the background you can see guys performing checks.  Such is the level of duplictousness existing in British politics right now, it wouldn't surprise me at all.



As for the Union, each of the devolved assemblies of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales has rejected the Boris Agreement and have of course been ignored.  After all, there is nothing in the UK's constitution that would compel the Westminster government to give these rejections any meaningful regard — nor do I imagine any Leaver on here would say that those rejections should in any way delay Brexit. Hence why it has long been galling to hear British Eurosceptics talk about Brussels 'diktats' when the EU functions as a Union of countries much more meaningfully than the UK.

[T00ts]

Well, as I said elsewhere, I'm off to 'Spoons on Friday  and I shall expect a bit of a riot frankly.

You'll have to let us know if it's friendly or still a battle of two warring sides. That might indicate the future police requirements.

[johnofgwent]

Sorry toots , but i think you gravely misunderstand me.



I dont want disillusionment and anger south of the border. I want it north of the border , and the de facto english conservative party are providing it in buckets.



Whatever disillusionment and anger there is south of the border isnt being caused by me and mine , its being caused by the brexit process itself , and those who cant accept democracy in england.









My post was merely to point out friday is a further step in the right direction for brexiters , rather than the end of the process many think it is. You arent leaving the eu friday , merely withdrawing 73 meps and attaining the ability to do free trade deals.



How can any process start to heal when it has only just begun?



Scotland and northern ireland have routed brexiters consistently , you still have to deal with the eu , never mind the fact english remainers like hyper quack quack and many others certainly wont be so easily cowed.



You are going to be constantly attacked every step of the way  , and if johnson or his party make any faltering steps , their enemies, including farage  , will be waiting to pounce if johnson trys to sell BRINO.



So not sure why or how you expect things to heal and get back to normal. The genie is out the bottle and there is no going back to what once was.







There is no we toots , im not on your side.



We want scottish indy , the irish want reunification , english remainers want to stay , so on so forth. People are glad you arent in the clear  in terms of brexit and your political enemies are going to attack you and keep trying to trip you up.



This isnt the end , its merely the beginning.

Well, as I said elsewhere, I'm off to 'Spoons on Friday  and I shall expect a bit of a riot frankly.

[T00ts]

There is no form of Brexit that will make the general public better off. It will be a disaster for millions of the general population. The only unknown is how long the disaster will last.

I suspect the disaster will last at least until the next general election and by then the Tories will be stuffed.

We have a choice in life, we can either sit on our hands and live life in the pessimist's corner seeing the world through a dark mist of horror or we can try our damnedest to pull together for the good of all. I honestly believe that we need to move away and onward from the argument about who is or was right or wrong. 40 odd years gave a majority the opinion that it was wrong to continue in the EU and we are now where we are. We can either pull together or make it an even longer tug-o-war. I know what I think is right now for the UK. Throw the rope out!

[papasmurf]

So be it. We both agree. We both think the other is wrong.

There is no form of Brexit that will make the general public better off. It will be a disaster for millions of the general population. The only unknown is how long the disaster will last.

I suspect the disaster will last at least until the next general election and by then the Tories will be stuffed.

[T00ts]

I know they have been misled. I haven't been misled, because I did not believe the bullshine and lies from both sides.

I knew Brexit of any kind was and is going to be a disaster especially with a Tory government.

My wife and I have made mitigating plans for the impending disaster, as have many other people I know.

As from Brexit zealots, they will just have to suffer and will get no sympathy from me at all.

I have a lot pf sympathy for those who voted out based on the lies and propaganda they were fed, but they are the ones who will get VERY angry when the they realise that.

So be it. We both agree. We both think the other is wrong.

[Conchúr]

No Conor you are missing the point,how many times does it need to be said that were we still in the common market we joined we wouldn't be leaving and in essence what you say would happen above is the common market,we don't want and don't need a european union.



No we have no problem as you outline,there is a world out there and as I said previously the insults are still flying with Leo telling us we are a small country in a weak position and Macron and others making demands,I must admit that my initial response to them is well ....."Feck you"

That's my very point though Cromwell — even among Brexiteers there is an acknowledgement that the Single Market as a concept makes sense.  This is the problem you now have, because once Boris 'gets Brexit done' there is essentially nothing to stop the Tories from going about re-establishing the workings of the old order. All they have to do — and ultimately from what I can see they are great at it — is just keep telling people how hardball they are being. They can make 50p coins and talk about Big Ben Bongs and dish out blue passports, carefully crafting all the patriotic trappings to keep Brexiteers convinced that this government are Brexit purists . . .while subtly maintaining or rebuilding alignment.



So if the Tories achieve Brexit and wax lyrical about how hard they have been, it sounds to me like people will buy into it.  But let's say as the next few years progress, the Tories agree to some boring old agreement on MIFID II or GDPR or Aviation Standards or any other boring thing that the everyday person doesn't get too worked up or emotional over — what will be said then?  Who will actually care ? Ultimately the Tories will say that they have done what the referendum asked — leaving the European Union.  They can then do whatever they want — and with each treaty a little bit more sovereignty is ceded and another rule or set of rules is taken on board.



You've said it yourself, you don't really seem to have an ideological problem with a common market.  But if you want one, you have to abide by its rules.  If you don't want to be a full EU member, then you cede control over having a hand in those rules. This is the war that you now all face as Brexiteers, a constant state of vigilance against a slow process of treaties turning the o a rule taker rather than rulemaker.