Brexit celebrations rub Remainers' noses in it, says

[Stevlin]

There is no we toots , im not on your side.



We want scottish indy , the irish want reunification , english remainers want to stay , so on so forth. People are glad you arent in the clear  in terms of brexit and your political enemies are going to attack you and keep trying to trip you up.



This isnt the end , its merely the beginning.

There certainly is a 'WE'.....and whether you like it or not , YOU are part of the 'WE', as it is the UK that is leaving the EU - not JUST England.



So yes, it is another 'beginning' - but as ever, the 'future' cannot be seen - even if many  people claim otherwise. Undoubtedly, some 'event's are predictable, as being likely 'because of' etc......but despite various claims otherwise, magic crystal balls do not exist.

Irish reunification has naturally existed for quite a while - and won't disappear, just like Scotland's independence theme - but Brexit WILL take place come Friday - and that will be the END of the 'Remain' camp.

It will of course be replaced almost immediately by a 'Rejoin' faction, which will be the new home for Remainers....

[Thomas]

Thomas I understand all of that I really do, but you come to this question from a completely different angle to me and if we are really honest with each other you would possibly prefer the more disillusion and anger south of the border the better.

Sorry toots , but i think you gravely misunderstand me.



I dont want disillusionment and anger south of the border. I want it north of the border , and the de facto english conservative party are providing it in buckets.



Whatever disillusionment and anger there is south of the border isnt being caused by me and mine , its being caused by the brexit process itself , and those who cant accept democracy in england.

However we have had years now of anger, mistrust and general depression at the whole process and my vote now is that we start to heal.

My post was merely to point out friday is a further step in the right direction for brexiters , rather than the end of the process many think it is. You arent leaving the eu friday , merely withdrawing 73 meps and attaining the ability to do free trade deals.



How can any process start to heal when it has only just begun?



Scotland and northern ireland have routed brexiters consistently , you still have to deal with the eu , never mind the fact english remainers like hyper quack quack and many others certainly wont be so easily cowed.



You are going to be constantly attacked every step of the way  , and if johnson or his party make any faltering steps , their enemies, including farage  , will be waiting to pounce if johnson trys to sell BRINO.



So not sure why or how you expect things to heal and get back to normal. The genie is out the bottle and there is no going back to what once was.

I know Brexit is not complete and I see the risks, only a fool wouldn't, but what I don't want any longer is the turmoil and division that has damaged not only the UK but individuals too. We are attacked from all sides with very big problems because Brexit has dominated everything and it seems that we are not in the clear yet.

There is no we toots , im not on your side.



We want scottish indy , the irish want reunification , english remainers want to stay , so on so forth. People are glad you arent in the clear  in terms of brexit and your political enemies are going to attack you and keep trying to trip you up.



This isnt the end , its merely the beginning.

[T00ts]

While dusting, many corners were missed.

Yes but without a proper deep clean and strong disinfectant that was bound to be, I think we did the best we could do while we were all busy with Christmas.  

[Scott777]

I would agree but we have managed to give Westminster a bit of a dusting and thrown a lot of the garbage out. I still think the time is right for calm sage heads....until of course, they start to misbehave again!

While dusting, many corners were missed.

[T00ts]

Forgive the average remainer, but never the democracy-hating politicians.  Brexit has been a battle which we could have lost, with catastrophic consequences.

I would agree but we have managed to give Westminster a bit of a dusting and thrown a lot of the garbage out. I still think the time is right for calm sage heads....until of course, they start to misbehave again!

[Scott777]

I can't help but feel that it is time to forgive.

Forgive the average remainer, but never the democracy-hating politicians.  Brexit has been a battle which we could have lost, with catastrophic consequences.

[Sheepy]

Exactly. You may get a bit muddled but fortunately we have Toots to think for you.



Anyway, nice to see you back.

LOL well with you keeping the sharp end up Borchester,I am sure the ship is in safe hands.

[Borchester]

LOL well clear thinking is better than confused thinking.

Exactly. You may get a bit muddled but fortunately we have Toots to think for you.



Anyway, nice to see you back.

[Sheepy]

Perhaps, but with the remain opposition put firmly back in it's box and a healthy majority in Parliament I think the whole thing is in a better place, both for negotiating power and success in whatever the final outcome.

By the way glad to see you back again - I missed you for a while!  :hattip

LOL well clear thinking is better than confused thinking.

[T00ts]

Nice try at what I am not sure,I am just telling you one battle don't win the war,I am not saying you cannot celebrate winning a battle,I am telling you it is far from over.

Perhaps, but with the remain opposition put firmly back in it's box and a healthy majority in Parliament I think the whole thing is in a better place, both for negotiating power and success in whatever the final outcome.

By the way glad to see you back again - I missed you for a while!  :hattip

[Sheepy]

Good try Sheepy but I still don't buy it. Parliament is a completely different place now. Ok I agree that there will still be some turbulence but I think the days of really denting UK confidence are past. I think it's Varadkar who has just stated that the EU is stronger than the UK and he is already playing the same game as before in a bid to lead the negotiations but his position is weak.

Germany is struggling, Merkel admits that the EU has to be more competitive, France is struggling, Italy and Greece too. It's not all hunkydory in Euroland. I posted this link on another thread - you might find it interesting if you haven't already seen it...



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7927123/ALEXANDER-VON-SCHOENBURG-says-Germany-fears-Britain-face-reality-Brexit.html">//https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7927123/ALEXANDER-VON-SCHOENBURG-says-Germany-fears-Britain-face-reality-Brexit.html

Nice try at what I am not sure,I am just telling you one battle don't win the war,I am not saying you cannot celebrate winning a battle,I am telling you it is far from over.

[T00ts]

If they ran a propaganda war through the media Toots,just because it failed,it doesn't mean it will stop,as thomas is telling you,they still have a foot hold,turmoil and division is just part of it.The ordinary individual is being attacked on many fronts.Not just by the EU,that is just added extra weight.

Good try Sheepy but I still don't buy it. Parliament is a completely different place now. Ok I agree that there will still be some turbulence but I think the days of really denting UK confidence are past. I think it's Varadkar who has just stated that the EU is stronger than the UK and he is already playing the same game as before in a bid to lead the negotiations but his position is weak.

Germany is struggling, Merkel admits that the EU has to be more competitive, France is struggling, Italy and Greece too. It's not all hunkydory in Euroland. I posted this link on another thread - you might find it interesting if you haven't already seen it...



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7927123/ALEXANDER-VON-SCHOENBURG-says-Germany-fears-Britain-face-reality-Brexit.html">//https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7927123/ALEXANDER-VON-SCHOENBURG-says-Germany-fears-Britain-face-reality-Brexit.html

[Sheepy]

Thomas I understand all of that I really do, but you come to this question from a completely different angle to me and if we are really honest with each other you would possibly prefer the more disillusion and anger south of the border the better. However we have had years now of anger, mistrust and general depression at the whole process and my vote now is that we start to heal. I know Brexit is not complete and I see the risks, only a fool wouldn't, but what I don't want any longer is the turmoil and division that has damaged not only the UK but individuals too. We are attacked from all sides with very big problems because Brexit has dominated everything and it seems that we are not in the clear yet. China's situation threatens all of us.We need to calm down, adopt sage heads and look forward, not ignoring the EU negotiations but not letting it create the division of the past.

If they ran a propaganda war through the media Toots,just because it failed,it doesn't mean it will stop,as thomas is telling you,they still have a foot hold,turmoil and division is just part of it.The ordinary individual is being attacked on many fronts.Not just by the EU,that is just added extra weight.

[T00ts]

I understand your post toots , but i think you are being a wee bit presumptuous here. You and many others on this thread.



Calm and forgiveness is a long long way off , as we are barely started on the brexit process and fallout. I predict this is going to go on for years yet.



I also hope for your sake that the tories arent building brexiters up for a large fall. May i just re iterate you are leaving the eu in name only on friday , everything else remains the same.You then go into an 11 month transition period theresa may negotiated , where you will continue to take eu rules and pay the eu money , only this time you have no representation.



I will reserve judgement on johnson and his party regarding brexit till the end of this year , and i tell you now , i will be surprised if the uk leaves the eu even then. Could that be another johnson broken promise? Another die in a ditch moment?



As i said at the start of this process , the uk isnt surviving intact over brexit. We are yet again hearing how goods will now be checked coming from one part of the uk , ( northern ireland) to the rest , the scottish government is announcing its response to johnson on wednesday , so anyone thinking the party is now over , time to forgive and forget and move on is sadly mistaken.

Thomas I understand all of that I really do, but you come to this question from a completely different angle to me and if we are really honest with each other you would possibly prefer the more disillusion and anger south of the border the better. However we have had years now of anger, mistrust and general depression at the whole process and my vote now is that we start to heal. I know Brexit is not complete and I see the risks, only a fool wouldn't, but what I don't want any longer is the turmoil and division that has damaged not only the UK but individuals too. We are attacked from all sides with very big problems because Brexit has dominated everything and it seems that we are not in the clear yet. China's situation threatens all of us.We need to calm down, adopt sage heads and look forward, not ignoring the EU negotiations but not letting it create the division of the past.

[Thomas]

Calm has to start somewhere. Yes there are those who are still angry but it's a false anger surely?  There are some who simply like a punch up.  There are those who once they take a stand are too stubborn to back down. The whole point of the referendum fiasco, quite apart from if the question was right or the whole process badly misjudged, was that it happened and the democratic result had to be upheld. We would be in a terrible place now as a society if somehow the result had been ignored.

Even those who voted remain must see in time, how ignoring the vote would have destroyed any faith we might have had in the political/democratic process. Surely that in itself would have been beyond rescue.

The healing needs to start and rancour now is pointless and forgiveness for me is the only way forward if further damage is to be avoided.

Bercow quite apart from his disgraceful abuse of his position as Speaker, will get his just desserts one way or another. I doubt he will escape the consequences. We will see.

I understand your post toots , but i think you are being a wee bit presumptuous here. You and many others on this thread.



Calm and forgiveness is a long long way off , as we are barely started on the brexit process and fallout. I predict this is going to go on for years yet.



I also hope for your sake that the tories arent building brexiters up for a large fall. May i just re iterate you are leaving the eu in name only on friday , everything else remains the same.You then go into an 11 month transition period theresa may negotiated , where you will continue to take eu rules and pay the eu money , only this time you have no representation.



I will reserve judgement on johnson and his party regarding brexit till the end of this year , and i tell you now , i will be surprised if the uk leaves the eu even then. Could that be another johnson broken promise? Another die in a ditch moment?



As i said at the start of this process , the uk isnt surviving intact over brexit. We are yet again hearing how goods will now be checked coming from one part of the uk , ( northern ireland) to the rest , the scottish government is announcing its response to johnson on wednesday , so anyone thinking the party is now over , time to forgive and forget and move on is sadly mistaken.