The Tories really aren't that popular

[B0ycey]

You mean the Tories would win under the current polling system, or under current voting by left-behind Labour voters as demonstrated in the last election?

Current opinion polling must be a worry for the Tories even though it's only an indication of present thinking.

It seems to me that Labour thought it had enough support in Scotland and the north and ignored them, and took them for granted.

At the moment I think Labour would win a general election. But there's so many variables that might affect public thinking...

****

PS — I believe there is a place for the House of Lords. I would disagree it should be reformed into a totally voted chamber that is subject to the same voting calendar as the Commons.

I believe there is benefit to be had from continuity — I think that was shown by the appraisals of our late Queen's ability to offer guidance. Though voting for voting peers to sit for longer periods seems feasible  — say at every second election after they've been able to vote for, say, 10 years...

No, I'm saying the Tories won't win under the current polling system and only gerrymandering in the extreme is their only hope. We already know the swings for each seat and Labour is well placed for around 500 seats.

As for the late Queen, I would also abolish the monarchy. For every Elizabeth there is an Andrew. We don't elect on born privilege and it is a coin toss whether you get a King Arthur or a guest of Epstein's Island.

[patman post]

I agree with the crux of your post Patman and perhaps even more passionate on the issue especially in regards to the Lords which I would abolish. But in terms of gerrymandering, it isn't something I would accept nor is it something I would advocate either. It was brought up as it is the only way the Tories could win a general election under the current polling.

You mean the Tories would win under the current polling system, or under current voting by left-behind Labour voters as demonstrated in the last election?

Current opinion polling must be a worry for the Tories even though it's only an indication of present thinking.

It seems to me that Labour thought it had enough support in Scotland and the north and ignored them, and took them for granted.

At the moment I think Labour would win a general election. But there's so many variables that might affect public thinking...
 
****

PS — I believe there is a place for the House of Lords. I would disagree it should be reformed into a totally voted chamber that is subject to the same voting calendar as the Commons. 

I believe there is benefit to be had from continuity — I think that was shown by the appraisals of our late Queen's ability to offer guidance. Though voting for voting peers to sit for longer periods seems feasible  — say at every second election after they've been able to vote for, say, 10 years...

[B0ycey]

I would be against gerrymandering — but it's way past time electoral boundaries were reorganised. There's too many MPs for a start. On top of which there are the devolved governments, unitary authorities, etc.

Why not cut Parliament to 500 members, and have bigger constituencies — the US, with 250m manages with fewer national elected politicians than the UK with is 67m.

Cut the voting Lords to the same number as MPs. I'm not against raising exceptional people to a/the peerage where they can pass on the benefits of their experience and knowledge. But I'd make the voting Lords retire at the same age as high court judges.

The two-party system may well be coming to an end, but that's up to them and the voters. Perhaps both the Tories and Labour spread over too much ground. Five national parties (and hangers on) might be something to start drawing coalitions from...

I agree with the crux of your post Patman and perhaps even more passionate on the issue especially in regards to the Lords which I would abolish. But in terms of gerrymandering, it isn't something I would accept nor is it something I would advocate either. It was brought up as it is the only way the Tories could win a general election under the current polling.

[patman post]

You might think the figures are irrelevant given you think we are going to see gerrymandering beyond comprehension. I doubt anyone else thinks the same though Nick. Or maybe Sheepy thinks the same I guess.

I would be against gerrymandering — but it's way past time electoral boundaries were reorganised. There's too many MPs for a start. On top of which there are the devolved governments, unitary authorities, etc. 

Why not cut Parliament to 500 members, and have bigger constituencies — the US, with 250m manages with fewer national elected politicians than the UK with is 67m. 

Cut the voting Lords to the same number as MPs. I'm not against raising exceptional people to a/the peerage where they can pass on the benefits of their experience and knowledge. But I'd make the voting Lords retire at the same age as high court judges.

The two-party system may well be coming to an end, but that's up to them and the voters. Perhaps both the Tories and Labour spread over too much ground. Five national parties (and hangers on) might be something to start drawing coalitions from...

[B0ycey]

We don't think these figures as OK, we think they are irrelevant, but you'd know that if you ever understood what people posted. Stick to making the tea.

You might think the figures are irrelevant given you think we are going to see gerrymandering beyond comprehension. I doubt anyone else thinks the same though Nick. Or maybe Sheepy thinks the same I guess.

[patman post]

You really are a little snob aren't you Pat?

I can't see that much difference between the accents, but you have clearly made a study of the matter

I once attended a strange supposed business course run by, I think, Common Purpose-trained leaders. Its aim was to improve communication in being understood in words, voice and manner, and also reading and understanding what your interlocutor meant.

Many types of accents were looked at — national, regional, ethnic, socioeconomic, social, etc — as were the possible pointers to be had from whether the accent was obviously adopted and if the adoptee had pitched it at, for example, a higher or lower socioeconomic level to themselves.

Frankly, accent didn't seem to matter anywhere near as much as manner. But the main two types of speaker I still find difficult to bother with and/or follow are those who lay on their accents with a trowel, and those who are forever erring and umming.

Apologies if that causes you any distress as you tend to your leeks — I suspect from your posts you might have a burr, but that could just be the writing style you've picked up...

[Nick]

Pappy, it is like arguing with a brick wall. At this moment in time I think Nick and Sheepy are the only people in the UK who sees these polling figures and thinks they are OK. Tories themselves don't seem so confident...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/09/birmingham-blues-ringside-hellish-tory-party-conference

We don't think these figures as OK, we think they are irrelevant, but you'd know that if you ever understood what people posted. Stick to making the tea. 

[Borchester]

The same school as Cameron and Johnson. But they don't affect the deliberately cultivated caricature based on a rather dated form of RP.

His father, contented himself with an "upper class" accent, though with a slight sibilant 'S'...

You really are a little snob aren't you Pat?

I can't see that much difference between the accents, but you have clearly made a study of the matter

[patman post]

My God, a couple of years at Georgetown Comprehensive really did turn you into a limp dick snob didn't they?

Rees Mogg went to Eton. Do you expect him to speak in backslang?

The same school as Cameron and Johnson. But they don't affect the deliberately cultivated caricature based on a rather dated form of RP.

His father, contented himself with an "upper class" accent, though with a slight sibilant 'S'...

[papasmurf]

Pappy, it is like arguing with a brick wall. At this moment in time I think Nick and Sheepy are the only people in the UK who sees these polling figures and thinks they are OK. Tories themselves don't seem so confident...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/09/birmingham-blues-ringside-hellish-tory-party-conference

Quite, it won't be just poor people on in work benefits being evicted.

[B0ycey]

Nick just how bad do the Tories have to get before you actually realise how bad they are?

It is looking as if in two years' time several million of the middle class will be having to find another £200 week in mortgage and energy costs without other cost of living increases.

Pappy, it is like arguing with a brick wall. At this moment in time I think Nick and Sheepy are the only people in the UK who sees these polling figures and thinks they are OK. Tories themselves don't seem so confident...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/09/birmingham-blues-ringside-hellish-tory-party-conference

[Nick]

Nick do you deliberately avoid new and current affairs?  I did NOT make those figures up. (In fact, I referenced the mortgage data a few days ago.)

You posted data to how mortgages are going to be in 2 years time did you?
Amazing, you can travel in time. 😮 

[papasmurf]

More unsubstantiated figures with no data to back it up.
Who says the Tories are bad? I haven't.

Nick do you deliberately avoid new and current affairs?  I did NOT make those figures up. (In fact, I referenced the mortgage data a few days ago.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63180909

[Nick]

Nick just how bad do the Tories have to get before you actually realise how bad they are?

It is looking as if in two years' time several million of the middle class will be having to find another £200 week in mortgage and energy costs without other cost of living increases.

More unsubstantiated figures with no data to back it up. 
Who says the Tories are bad? I haven't. 

[Borchester]

But Rees-Mogg's affected drawl would have to call on the audience keeping count of his lying and irrelevant replies to keep awake.

Otherwise the commons would soon begin to resemble the Tory Conference audience after he takes to his feet...

My God, a couple of years at Georgetown Comprehensive really did turn you into a limp dick snob didn't they?

Rees Mogg went to Eton. Do you expect him to speak in backslang?