Who or what is responsible for climate change?

[Nick]

So you're suggesting that oceans have nothing to do with temperatures on land?

If so, take a look at studies near home that explain the unexpected warm temperatures on the west coast of Scotland that allow palm trees to grow. Or the strange micro climate around Vancouver in Canada where vines flourish, and some excellent red wines (not the watery German attempt) are produced.

Perhaps look at the effects of the Gulf Stream, and the worries there were about it changing its flow...

The oceans absorb and give off CO2 as they cool and warm, what has the seas effect on land temperatures got to do with anything?
Stop your obfuscation and get to the point of AGW. 

[patman post]

How is this anything to do with AGW? This outlines the effect of warming oceans which is well known.

So you're suggesting that oceans have nothing to do with temperatures on land?

If so, take a look at studies near home that explain the unexpected warm temperatures on the west coast of Scotland that allow palm trees to grow. Or the strange micro climate around Vancouver in Canada where vines flourish, and some excellent red wines (not the watery German attempt) are produced.

Perhaps look at the effects of the Gulf Stream, and the worries there were about it changing its flow...

[Nick]

The measures advanced for combatting/limiting climate change seem to tally with those being introduced to help towards a cleaner, less-polluted, and healthier environment.

I tend to take more notice of info from real scientists, rather than keyboard Jonah's, and Doubting Thomas's, who amuse themselves citing charlatans and pretending they know.

Here's an interesting report on ocean acidification...

https://www.noaa.gov/education/resource-collections/ocean-coasts/ocean-acidification

How is this anything to do with AGW? This outlines the effect of warming oceans which is well known. 

[patman post]

I don't believe anyone is against a cleaner, less-polluted, and healthier environment. That is not the question in hand, which was climate change and what is causing it.

The measures advanced for combatting/limiting climate change seem to tally with those being introduced to help towards a cleaner, less-polluted, and healthier environment.

I tend to take more notice of info from real scientists, rather than keyboard Jonah's, and Doubting Thomas's, who amuse themselves citing charlatans and pretending they know.

Here's an interesting report on ocean acidification...

https://www.noaa.gov/education/resource-collections/ocean-coasts/ocean-acidification

[Nick]

The answer to that might probably be usefully found inside buckyballs

The thing I do not get about carbon dioxide high in the atmosphere is an experiment done by a real world mad scientist at the open university who filled ballon's with all sorts of gases sat precariously atop the OU building in CMK and released them.


the helium and hydrogen went rocketing skywards. Argon and C02 both plummeted as the rhetorical lead balloon.

it is a fact that carbon dioxide gas when present over water with a certain amount of wind and sun will be dissolved into the water vapour evaporated by the sun and fall either as acid rain or more likely just fall straight into the sea

the carbonate ions then become calcium carbonate in shells of molluscs or just plain precipitate. Such is how sedimentary rocks are made

i wonder what allowance is made by Greta and her cultists for that process

i wonder if they've even measured the acidity of seawater

Another question is the way they measure the amount of CO2 and is it the same as 40 years ago. The instrumentation must have changed and become more accurate, that in its self could explain the change. 

[johnofgwent]

Maybe not the end of the World. But — as you've possibly noticed on your allotment — a change in the environment can have knock-on effects to your broad beans, carrots, or leeks. So could be the end of artichokes, celery or, even, mammals.

I'm persuaded humans have been savaging our environment for centuries. Gaia has been doing her(?) best, but, overall, the world has been turning into a less hospitable place. And in places it is no longer healthily habitable.

Those who've been poo-pooing those who'd like a cleaner, less-polluted, and healthier environment are (in my opinion) just plain wrong.

To my mind there are too many Alex Jones's out there, and too few Greta Thunbergs...

I know Greta badly needs a boyfriend to give her a sense of perspective but I find the idea she's going to be allowed to breed more like her somewhat concerning

[johnofgwent]

I might be interesting to see what people regard as the primary cause of climate change, or even if they believe it is happening at all.

The answer to that might probably be usefully found inside buckyballs 

The thing I do not get about carbon dioxide high in the atmosphere is an experiment done by a real world mad scientist at the open university who filled ballon's with all sorts of gases sat precariously atop the OU building in CMK and released them.


the helium and hydrogen went rocketing skywards. Argon and C02 both plummeted as the rhetorical lead balloon.

it is a fact that carbon dioxide gas when present over water with a certain amount of wind and sun will be dissolved into the water vapour evaporated by the sun and fall either as acid rain or more likely just fall straight into the sea

the carbonate ions then become calcium carbonate in shells of molluscs or just plain precipitate. Such is how sedimentary rocks are made

i wonder what allowance is made by Greta and her cultists for that process

i wonder if they've even measured the acidity of seawater

[Nick]

Maybe not the end of the World. But — as you've possibly noticed on your allotment — a change in the environment can have knock-on effects to your broad beans, carrots, or leeks. So could be the end of artichokes, celery or, even, mammals.

I'm persuaded humans have been savaging our environment for centuries. Gaia has been doing her(?) best, but, overall, the world has been turning into a less hospitable place. And in places it is no longer healthily habitable.

Those who've been poo-pooing those who'd like a cleaner, less-polluted, and healthier environment are (in my opinion) just plain wrong.

To my mind there are too many Alex Jones's out there, and too few Greta Thunbergs...

I don't believe anyone is against a cleaner, less-polluted, and healthier environment. That is not the question in hand, which was climate change and what is causing it. 

[patman post]

A rider to all this is that we use Centigrade and Fahrenheit to measure temperature because it is convenient, but the true measure is degrees Absolute.

So if we get a summer where the temperatures average 40 degrees Centigrade we think that is it, the Earth is going to catch fire, whereas if it drops to 10 degrees Centigrade we start having visions of polar bears on ice floes floating up the Thames.

However, in real terms it is 313 and 283 degrees Absolute respectively. This is a 10% change in temperature which is a hell of a surprise and something to boost Greta Glumberg's waning star, but not really the end of the world.

Maybe not the end of the World. But — as you've possibly noticed on your allotment — a change in the environment can have knock-on effects to your broad beans, carrots, or leeks. So could be the end of artichokes, celery or, even, mammals. 

I'm persuaded humans have been savaging our environment for centuries. Gaia has been doing her(?) best, but, overall, the world has been turning into a less hospitable place. And in places it is no longer healthily habitable.

Those who've been poo-pooing those who'd like a cleaner, less-polluted, and healthier environment are (in my opinion) just plain wrong.

To my mind there are too many Alex Jones's out there, and too few Greta Thunbergs...

[Nick]

A rider to all this is that we use Centigrade and Fahrenheit to measure temperature because it is convenient, but the true measure is degrees Absolute.

So if we get a summer where the temperatures average 40 degrees Centigrade we think that is it, the Earth is going to catch fire, whereas if it drops to 10 degrees Centigrade we start having visions of polar bears on ice floes floating up the Thames.

However, in real terms it is 313 and 283 degrees Absolute respectively. This is a 10% change in temperature which is a hell of a surprise and something to boost Greta Glumberg's waning star, but not really the end of the world.

Regardless of what scales we use the fact that we have had 5 times more C02 in the atmosphere in the past and temperatures were much hotter shows there's nothing to start panicking about.

https://youtu.be/nTq8-hnDeyk

[Borchester]

A rider to all this is that we use Centigrade and Fahrenheit to measure temperature because it is convenient, but the true measure is degrees Absolute.

So if we get a summer where the temperatures average 40 degrees Centigrade we think that is it, the Earth is going to catch fire, whereas if it drops to 10 degrees Centigrade we start having visions of polar bears on ice floes floating up the Thames.

However, in real terms it is 313 and 283 degrees Absolute respectively. This is a 10% change in temperature which is a hell of a surprise and something to boost Greta Glumberg's waning star, but not really the end of the world.

[Streetwalker]

Believe it or not, there are now more trees than there was 10 years ago, mainly due to China. The problem being the type of trees being planted are not broad leaf varieties.

I imagine they plant fast growing pines . Same as in the US/Canada  where they remove ancient forests which are the absorbers  of carbon to turn into wood pellets for power stations to burn for electricity .
We have one in Yorkshire that sits on top of a coal mine with ample supply of the black stuff . It stopped mining years ago and now uses imported  wood pellets from the Americas . Because they replant (the wrong type of trees ) its called sustainable forests and the power plant can claim it runs 100% on renewable energy . 

In its drive for 'Green energy' and 'carbon targets' the power industry is actually making things worse and would be better off using the coal thats under their feet 

[Nick]

I dont know  but if you are blaming carbon then Im pointing my finger at the deforisting of the rain forests

Believe it or not, there are now more trees than there was 10 years ago, mainly due to China. The problem being the type of trees being planted are not broad leaf varieties. 

[Nick]

I mean actual climatic changes and intensifications and instabilities fuelled by a rise in average global temperatures.

The climate of the earth has been heating and cooling for millions of years on a 25,000 year cycle. Our galaxy is travelling through the universe, our Sun is travelling through our galaxy, the Earth is orbiting the Sun, the Earth is spinning on a tilt, that tilt has a wobble and the magnetic poles are about ready to flip. If the climate wasn't changing I'd be pretty amazed. The fact that temperature drives C02 is the key and has been recorded for the list 800,000 years. When Al Gore talked of an inconvenient truth, the inconvenience for him was that the relationship between temperature and C02 was the wrong way round, C02 lags temperature by roughly 800 years, which coincidentally is how long it takes the oceans to react to temperature changes on the Earth. The proof of this is that our oceans are warmer now than for 100's of years: this is due to the MWP, circa 1000 to 1250. The sea temperature increases and starts to give off more C02, only Man is so egotistical that he thinks he is so great that he can outdo what the Sun does, which by the way puts enough energy onto the Earths surface in one second to power the earth since the invention of electricity. 





I await any scientific proof of AGW.

[srb7677]

You need to define climate change and what you actually mean.

I mean actual climatic changes and intensifications and instabilities fuelled by a rise in average global temperatures.