End of days and climate change

[srb7677]

Remember too that going to Revelations as a starting point is a bit like taking a big novel and starting with the last chapter with no knowledge of the characters.

I understand that, though I have read the bible twice before. Many years ago now though. The reason I am drawn to Revelations right now though is that it seems to be resonating with what I see happening in the world. And it is this aspect I feel drawn to at the moment.

[srb7677]

How about 2nd hand book shops or even the library?

I havent been to the library in years but do have a library card. Never thought of that. Any bible though might be in the reference section so I would be unable to borrow it if that is so. I need a copy I can read at my leisure at home. I will check out my local charity shop when I have some spare time.

[T00ts]

Thank you. There will be better days when I am more spiritually receptive. I prefer actually reading books in the old fashioned way so am thinking of buying myself a bible. But for financial reasons I do not want to spend too much on it. Do you think that if I went to my local church and left a donation that they might lend me a copy? Or be able to sell me one cheaply?

And thinking about it, would you mind if I asked which denomination of Christianity you adhere to?

I am compartmentalising somewhat and you might be too. When it comes to material political issues we each know our own minds and each seems convinced that the other is mostly talking nonsense. Yet when it comes to spiritual and religious issues I am willing to listen with an open heart and an open - if questioning - mind. I try to keep the two things separate.

I'm not sure quite how to answer that since no matter what I said there would be those who would do their best to dissuade you. Eg if I said I was CofE, or Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist or Roman or Anglican Catholic or any of the many Christian faiths  you might feel an antipathy and for the moment it is God and Jesus you might be seeking and perhaps denomination would get in the way. I have carefully not shared any particular Doctrine with you and would prefer you to find your own way. How about 2nd hand book shops or even the library? Even a charity shop may well have a discarded copy. Revelations is a tough book to study so I would recommend that if/when you dip in you look at the explanations verse by verse as you go along. The imagery can be tricky to follow. Remember too that going to Revelations as a starting point is a bit like taking a big novel and starting with the last chapter with no knowledge of the characters.

[srb7677]

I knew there was a relevant scripture I just couldn't recall it:-

"For I, the Lord your God, will hold your right hand, saying to you, 'Fear not, I will help you'" (Isaiah 41:13).    God promises to support and help you through every trial.

Thank you. There will be better days when I am more spiritually receptive. I prefer actually reading books in the old fashioned way so am thinking of buying myself a bible. But for financial reasons I do not want to spend too much on it. Do you think that if I went to my local church and left a donation that they might lend me a copy? Or be able to sell me one cheaply?

And thinking about it, would you mind if I asked which denomination of Christianity you adhere to?

I am compartmentalising somewhat and you might be too. When it comes to material political issues we each know our own minds and each seems convinced that the other is mostly talking nonsense. Yet when it comes to spiritual and religious issues I am willing to listen with an open heart and an open - if questioning - mind. I try to keep the two things separate.

[T00ts]

I knew there was a relevant scripture I just couldn't recall it:- 

 "For I, the Lord your God, will hold your right hand, saying to you, 'Fear not, I will help you'" (Isaiah 41:13).    God promises to support and help you through every trial. 

[T00ts]

Does that mean you think I should try and force it? I have found in the past that waiting for the right contemplative mindset - which usually comes with a surfeit of relaxation and free time - most conducive to connecting with deeper truths. If I try to force it now there is a strong chance of me rejecting everything as nonsense.

You must do what you feel is right. I cannot answer these sort of questions you have free will to do anything you wish to do and all of us can only do what we can manage.

[srb7677]

Just so that you are aware, anyone genuinely seeking truth will find things conspire against them in all sorts of ways.

Does that mean you think I should try and force it? I have found in the past that waiting for the right contemplative mindset - which usually comes with a surfeit of relaxation and free time - most conducive to connecting with deeper truths. If I try to force it now there is a strong chance of me rejecting everything as nonsense.

[T00ts]

Been a very busy "day off". Not in the right frame of mind to study or reflect upon Revelations. I feel very distant from my inner spiritual self today, and know this not to be a state of mind conducive to fruitful contemplation. The right moment cannot be forced. It may well be that I need to await my week off in the second week of November but will see.

Just so that you are aware, anyone genuinely seeking truth will find things conspire against them in all sorts of ways.

[srb7677]

Been a very busy "day off". Not in the right frame of mind to study or reflect upon Revelations. I feel very distant from my inner spiritual self today, and know this not to be a state of mind conducive to fruitful contemplation. The right moment cannot be forced. It may well be that I need to await my week off in the second week of November but will see.

[Barry]

The studies I linked to are MP3 files of about 25 minute programmes from Dr J Vernon McGee, who is now dead. The Thru The Bible programmes are available on an app, on smart speakers, and generally online and go through the whole Bible every 5 years. I think we are now on our 3rd trip round on the Bible Bus, as they affectionately call the study.

I've got used to his accent now, but it is quite distinctive.

[srb7677]

well, I was standing under the path of totality of the last total eclipse and when that shadow rolled over the clouds above my head, I tell you now if four dodgy equestrians a bloke with a trumpet and a painfully thin guy with an agricultural implement had come out of the River Tamar and up the hill I wouldn't have been a bit surprised.

If you are suggesting what I think you are suggesting, that all the signs of growing calamity - economically, climatically, biologically, militarily, politically, socially - predisposes us to believe the sort of things that might be contained in Revelations because of the more primitive parts of our brains, you might be right.

But when it comes to Revelations or any such thing, if I decide to read it and look into it - as I have already decided to do when I have sufficient free time - I will do so with an open mind, with my heart open but also my logical brain fully engaged.

There have been moments when I have felt deep down inside almost on some sort of spiritual or subconscious level that I am close to some new awakening but the feeling fades again. I don't know how much of that is due to my own brain's more primitive workings or whether there is any potential new dawn for my way of thinking and feeling. I do in my logical reasoning processes suspect that the latter is unlikely - I have far too many doubts - but I retain an open enough mind not to dismiss the possibility and wish to be open to it if it happens.

[srb7677]

Whether I have sufficient time for a relaxed perusal of Revelations this week is in doubt. Am working long hours every day except Wednesday, when I have to fit in housework, covid jab, doing mums shopping and a visit from brother. I need to be in the right relaxed and meditative state of mind to read such things properly and not sure I will be, but it is on my to do list when I do have lots of spare time. If I do get a chance this wednesday I will report back on any thoughts

[T00ts]

To accept that higher law lies within the words of the bible which itself can be so contradictory is a bit difficult for anyone who is not a true believer. Especially if like me you have severe qualms from a moral perspective about much that is in the Old Testament.

It seems to me that the egg must definitely come before the chicken here, ie that you need to be a true believer first and to accept all that this means before you can believe in any higher law based around the bible.

People get stuck in the Old Testament and it's laws without understanding the point of Christianity. Jesus came as the fulfilment of the promises in the OT. Many times it is written that the Messiah would come and to this day the Jews still believe that He is still to come. I don't want to overload you with doctrine or anyone else but just hear the concept. We are all Spirit children of God but we are human children of our earthly parents. Jesus was different. He was a Spirit son of God as we are, but had an earthly Mother - Mary. This made His earth experience so very different from the rest of us and His knowledge of God and the understanding that He imparted to His disciples was so very different. The OT has been fulfilled by Jesus coming and the rules of that time ended. Jesus is all about caring for others etc as we know. Ask the question if you honestly want to know it will be shown to you. What you do with it will be down to you.

[srb7677]

I think the question of right and wrong needs to be judged by a higher law than that of the secular

To accept that higher law lies within the words of the bible which itself can be so contradictory is a bit difficult for anyone who is not a true believer. Especially if like me you have severe qualms from a moral perspective about much that is in the Old Testament.

It seems to me that the egg must definitely come before the chicken here, ie that you need to be a true believer first and to accept all that this means before you can believe in any higher law based around the bible.

[johnofgwent]

Many Christians seem to deny the reality of climate change, on the assumption that mere humans cannot possibly alter something set in place by God, who is presumed to be in charge.

Although not a Christian believer myself, I am going to attempt to step out of myself and play devil's advocate for a moment.

Does not the bible in Revelations prophesy the end of days before the second coming of Christ? And that this end of days time is one of great calamity and disruption, where good vies against evil?

In the context of this, could not man-made climate change be a reality, and all part and parcel of the end times? Another example of humans driven by greed upsetting a balance established by God? And another reason why God is likely to say "enough" and take back full control, our stewardship of His creation proving a failure because of our own sins?

And that all this is an integral part of the end times?

Just a thought.

well, I was standing under the path of totality of the last total eclipse and when that shadow rolled over the clouds above my head, I tell you now if four dodgy equestrians a bloke with a trumpet and a painfully thin guy with an agricultural implement had come out of the River Tamar and up the hill I wouldn't have been a bit surprised.

The whole experience gave me an incredible insight into how we have allowed the Neanderthal hindbrain come up with the book of revelation

but satan and I have come to an understanding. I'm going to hell but I get to take Greta with me.