Spirituality and pornography. Why is the latter wrong?

[srb7677]

A thank you to anyone who is praying for me. Whether or not my soul can be saved by me seeing the light remains to be seen but I just don't truly believe right now.

[Barry]

Perhaps my former experiences with Jehovah's Witnesses clouded my perceptions. Because I assumed all Christians wanted this for everyone. That all wanted to save souls as they see it. If you have no interest in what I believe or do, then perhaps further discussion between us is best put on hold for now.

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I certainly do care about you and your path in life.

I know that people are praying for you, even though we have never met you, that you find the truth for yourself, with the help of the Holy Spirit, which is why He was left with us when Jesus ascended , resurrected, into Heaven.

[srb7677]

You are asking the wrong person! 

When I am in the right spiritual frame of mind I will attempt to speak to Him via prayer, but already at the very thought of trying to do so my doubts about His true nature are crowding in. I never seem able to open my heart fully because of my doubts as to His very existence for one thing. I do believe in a super entitity that spans the entire universe but am not sure of it's consciousness or whether it can even be understood in such terms by us. Am not sure if the biblical concept of God actually exists.

Am not sure though that these discussions are getting us any further and I need the time and space for deeper contemplation first, which I get so little of due to a busy life

[T00ts]

My doubts about the bible - particularly the OT - are genuine and I feel are logically and spiritually sound.

But even according to my own past stated beliefs I do not think our existence is pointless and believe we have an eternal soul that develops spiritually over vast periods of time through successive incarnations. But I have said all that before.

You seem to view my genuine doubts as the work of Satan persuading me to doubt. But I really don't listen to him and am not even certain of his existence, though I incline to the probability of it, because I know evil exists and that it exists not only in the physical realm.

But we have free will and the power of rational thought. Using it to think through doubts does not mean that I am under the influence of Satan. My doubts spring from my own morality and spirituality and logic and are not the result of any evil entity whispering in my ear, to which I wouldn't listen.

As a child I prayed to God quite often actually but never had any sense of my prayers being listened to, let alone answered. I struggle with the concept of praying now, almost feeling foolish at the very notion of doing so. My concept of God differs quite a lot from the biblical one and I am not convinced He even listens to most of us when we pray. I struggle to get past feeling silly when I try, and my own human flaws crowd into my mind as psychological barriers. Why would God listen to such a wilful sinner as I who is not yet at all ready to give up my sins, or even to acknowledge them as wrong in the first place?

Do you think this is Satan's influence upon me? I feel almost certain that you will think it so but I dispute that, believing that it is my own freedom of thought and action, my own free will, that I am exercising.

I am not in a position to know the adversary's affect on any individual I am only aware of his work on mankind in general. You are absolutely right to believe that you are exercising your own free will. There is no way I would want to dispute that at all. I can only share my experience and beliefs and how it has affected me. What you choose to do with it is absolutely your own choice. You are asking the wrong person!   The truth can only come from one source.

[srb7677]

But surely that is not the important question? The starting point is not whether Scripture is unadulterated in translation or whatever, or if OT laws as given are seen as fair in the light of modern day thinking. The adversary is very happy for us to see these as good reasons for not believing and will always convince us thus wherever possible. The question surely must be 'is there a God and is the Gospel true? Is it real that there is a reason for us all to be here and an eternal life? That is what the father of all lies doesn't want us to ask and even the fear that we might actually get an answer makes him apoplectic. It doesn't matter if we dissect the Scriptures or ask anyone and everyone for the truth.
There is only one way to know for sure - we need to just ask the question of the one who has all the answers. We are all children of God. He cares about each one of us in exactly the way we would expect earthly parents to care for each individual child and if you ask righteously and humbly He will tell you. Let's face it someone who really believes He doesn't exist wouldn't even be concerned since praying to a non entity would be stupid wouldn't it and to imagine that we would get an answer is crazy right?
Then why am I so convinced? Why do I remember the exact moment when I knew for sure and why have I never wavered since? It wasn't an instant reply, I wasn't even thinking about it. I was doing some really mundane task. There wasn't a flash of lightening or anything particular but suddenly I knew with such certainty that there was no going back. I have no agenda in sharing this except that that moment is something that I would love everyone to know and experience but as I have said many times we all have free will and it is everyone's own choice to believe or not, to really want to know or not. I just wish the adversary felt the same way. He doesn't. He is in a deadly battle with Christ who wants us all to freely return to our Father in Heaven. His view as I understand it is that he wants to force us all not to believe thus putting ourselves into his eternal power. Sadly he will win with many but no matter how many souls he convinces he will fail in the end. Our decision is whose side are we on? There is no hedging our bets.

My doubts about the bible - particularly the OT - are genuine and I feel are logically and spiritually sound.

But even according to my own past stated beliefs I do not think our existence is pointless and believe we have an eternal soul that develops spiritually over vast periods of time through successive incarnations. But I have said all that before.

You seem to view my genuine doubts as the work of Satan persuading me to doubt. But I really don't listen to him and am not even certain of his existence, though I incline to the probability of it, because I know evil exists and that it exists not only in the physical realm. 

But we have free will and the power of rational thought. Using it to think through doubts does not mean that I am under the influence of Satan. My doubts spring from my own morality and spirituality and logic and are not the result of any evil entity whispering in my ear, to which I wouldn't listen. 

As a child I prayed to God quite often actually but never had any sense of my prayers being listened to, let alone answered. I struggle with the concept of praying now, almost feeling foolish at the very notion of doing so. My concept of God differs quite a lot from the biblical one and I am not convinced He even listens to most of us when we pray. I struggle to get past feeling silly when I try, and my own human flaws crowd into my mind as psychological barriers. Why would God listen to such a wilful sinner as I who is not yet at all ready to give up my sins, or even to acknowledge them as wrong in the first place?

Do you think this is Satan's influence upon me? I feel almost certain that you will think it so but I dispute that, believing that it is my own freedom of thought and action, my own free will, that I am exercising.

[Good old]

There is still the problem for me that God the Father in the Old Testament sounds like a vengeful, jealous, and cruel being. I do not believe this to be the true nature of God at all, if He exists, and thus doubt the reliability of much of the Old Testament. It seems like a suspiciously primitive and human  imagining of an almighty God. If the Old Testament really is the word of God, then clearly, it seems to me it has been overridden by the distortions and assumptions of mere men. So it seems to me that we have the problem with it of discerning and separating the true word of God from the false assumptions of men.

Incidentally, I have also struggled with the supposed notion of a chosen people. Since God is supposed to be the ultimate Father of everyone, I don't believe He would ever have had a chosen people. I suspect that this concept is a human construct by members of that people.

Clearly, I still struggle with the OT far too much to easily and readily become a true believer.

Maybe it was , chosen species intended.  Religion has always been manipulated for political purposes anyway.
Any truths are either lost or distorted beyond belief, adapted to suit what becomes accepted as the culture of any number of various political set ups.

[T00ts]

There is still the problem for me that God the Father in the Old Testament sounds like a vengeful, jealous, and cruel being. I do not believe this to be the true nature of God at all, if He exists, and thus doubt the reliability of much of the Old Testament. It seems like a suspiciously primitive and human  imagining of an almighty God. If the Old Testament really is the word of God, then clearly, it seems to me it has been overridden by the distortions and assumptions of mere men. So it seems to me that we have the problem with it of discerning and separating the true word of God from the false assumptions of men.

Incidentally, I have also struggled with the supposed notion of a chosen people. Since God is supposed to be the ultimate Father of everyone, I don't believe He would ever have had a chosen people. I suspect that this concept is a human construct by members of that people.

Clearly, I still struggle with the OT far too much to easily and readily become a true believer.

But surely that is not the important question? The starting point is not whether Scripture is unadulterated in translation or whatever, or if OT laws as given are seen as fair in the light of modern day thinking. The adversary is very happy for us to see these as good reasons for not believing and will always convince us thus wherever possible. The question surely must be 'is there a God and is the Gospel true? Is it real that there is a reason for us all to be here and an eternal life? That is what the father of all lies doesn't want us to ask and even the fear that we might actually get an answer makes him apoplectic. It doesn't matter if we dissect the Scriptures or ask anyone and everyone for the truth.
There is only one way to know for sure - we need to just ask the question of the one who has all the answers. We are all children of God. He cares about each one of us in exactly the way we would expect earthly parents to care for each individual child and if you ask righteously and humbly He will tell you. Let's face it someone who really believes He doesn't exist wouldn't even be concerned since praying to a non entity would be stupid wouldn't it and to imagine that we would get an answer is crazy right? 
Then why am I so convinced? Why do I remember the exact moment when I knew for sure and why have I never wavered since? It wasn't an instant reply, I wasn't even thinking about it. I was doing some really mundane task. There wasn't a flash of lightening or anything particular but suddenly I knew with such certainty that there was no going back. I have no agenda in sharing this except that that moment is something that I would love everyone to know and experience but as I have said many times we all have free will and it is everyone's own choice to believe or not, to really want to know or not. I just wish the adversary felt the same way. He doesn't. He is in a deadly battle with Christ who wants us all to freely return to our Father in Heaven. His view as I understand it is that he wants to force us all not to believe thus putting ourselves into his eternal power. Sadly he will win with many but no matter how many souls he convinces he will fail in the end. Our decision is whose side are we on? There is no hedging our bets.

[srb7677]

Not quite - they are still relevant in the teachings about God the Father and the history of mankind, but Jesus fulfilled them for a purpose.

There is still the problem for me that God the Father in the Old Testament sounds like a vengeful, jealous, and cruel being. I do not believe this to be the true nature of God at all, if He exists, and thus doubt the reliability of much of the Old Testament. It seems like a suspiciously primitive and human  imagining of an almighty God. If the Old Testament really is the word of God, then clearly, it seems to me it has been overridden by the distortions and assumptions of mere men. So it seems to me that we have the problem with it of discerning and separating the true word of God from the false assumptions of men.

Incidentally, I have also struggled with the supposed notion of a chosen people. Since God is supposed to be the ultimate Father of everyone, I don't believe He would ever have had a chosen people. I suspect that this concept is a human construct by members of that people.

Clearly, I still struggle with the OT far too much to easily and readily become a true believer.

[T00ts]

Not to "Christian's" ...

that's the whole point. They have a 'new covenant' that means the OT rules are ripped up ...

Not quite - they are still relevant in the teachings about God the Father and the history of mankind, but Jesus fulfilled them for a purpose.

[johnofgwent]

The Old Testament is half the bible. So it surely matters?

Not to "Christian's" ... 

that's the whole point. They have a 'new covenant' that means the OT rules are ripped up ...

[T00ts]

Perhaps my former experiences with Jehovah's Witnesses clouded my perceptions. Because I assumed all Christians wanted this for everyone. That all wanted to save souls as they see it. If you have no interest in what I believe or do, then perhaps further discussion between us is best put on hold for now.

Perhaps the wrong wording on my part. I didn't want you to feel any pressure and that I had ulterior motives. I am always happy to share what I believe with anyone but certainly do not operate like JWs. 

[srb7677]

I recognised the truth of the Gospel and have built my confirming knowledge since. You just have to have the courage and humility to ask the question. Don't imagine that I want this for you - we all have free will

Perhaps my former experiences with Jehovah's Witnesses clouded my perceptions. Because I assumed all Christians wanted this for everyone. That all wanted to save souls as they see it. If you have no interest in what I believe or do, then perhaps further discussion between us is best put on hold for now. 

[srb7677]

Another one who hasn't moved out of the OT! 

The Old Testament is half the bible. So it surely matters?

[T00ts]

Don't forget the original definition meant helping yourself to a woman who was already someone else's property. Blokes could have as many not married to another man as they felt inclined, plus slaves of course.

Another one who hasn't moved out of the OT!  

[johnofgwent]

I guess the get out is the word adultery. So if you are single it's ok? No it isn't but that's another story.

Don't forget the original definition meant helping yourself to a woman who was already someone else's property. Blokes could have as many not married to another man as they felt inclined, plus slaves of course.