Project Fear

[Streetwalker]

Probably true — but it puts the UK not joining in its correct perspective. It was the UK's choice not to join the euro, not the EU's refusal to have the UK in. Remember, Greece was included on fudged data and that utterly screwed its economy.

Every country that joined  fudged its data to become members of the euro club . The deluded founders of it soon found that the entry requirements they had set would result in it being a club of none . But of course it was a political project not a monetary one so the rules were put aside 

[GerryT]

Perhaps by then Ireland will have grown up enough to not hang on to mummy EU's apron strings.

Jesus, with the pantomime that is UK politics and you manage to lecture others about being grown up :D:D

[Nick]

The EU won't entertain the UK rejoining unless there is a majority consensus that that's what the UK people want and see it's in their best interest. That's a long long way away. The Gap between the EU and UK is starting to happen, lets see where it is in 10 or 20 years and then peoples opinion might have changed, but no way a 50%+1 will satisfy the EU for UK request to join if and when that happens.

Perhaps by then Ireland will have grown up enough to not hang on to mummy EU's apron strings. 

[GerryT]

Probably true — but it puts the UK not joining in its correct perspective. It was the UK's choice not to join the euro, not the EU's refusal to have the UK in. Remember, Greece was included on fudged data and that utterly screwed its economy.

It's important to recognise who's responsible for what in these decisions, and why, because such info can give a clue or steer to what could happen, or be achieved, in future.

For instance, who's likely (if anyone) to make approaches to formally re-associate the UK with or rejoin the EU and to what extent and on what terms?

Leaving and rejoining is not going to be as easy as hopping on and off a bus...

The EU won't entertain the UK rejoining unless there is a majority consensus that that's what the UK people want and see it's in their best interest. That's a long long way away. The Gap between the EU and UK is starting to happen, lets see where it is in 10 or 20 years and then peoples opinion might have changed, but no way a 50%+1 will satisfy the EU for UK request to join if and when that happens.

[patman post]

I'll concede thats true, back then Brown did rule it because his 5 tests weren't met. But those tests were near impossible to pass by design.

Probably true — but it puts the UK not joining in its correct perspective. It was the UK's choice not to join the euro, not the EU's refusal to have the UK in. Remember, Greece was included on fudged data and that utterly screwed its economy.

It's important to recognise who's responsible for what in these decisions, and why, because such info can give a clue or steer to what could happen, or be achieved, in future.

For instance, who's likely (if anyone) to make approaches to formally re-associate the UK with or rejoin the EU and to what extent and on what terms?

Leaving and rejoining is not going to be as easy as hopping on and off a bus...

[HallowedBrexit]

I'll concede thats true, back then Brown did rule it because his 5 tests weren't met. But those tests were near impossible to pass by design.

Do the words "Ponzi scheme" ring a bell Gerry? That's why we will never rejoin the EU. The whole project was set up to rob Treasure Island and we won't have any of it.

[Sean]

Full EU membership? No way, José.

Speak for yourself. In less than 24 months time , Keir will begin the rejoin process .

[GerryT]

I think you'll find that the decision for the UK not to join the euro was Gordon Brown's. My recollection from contemporary reports, is that he ruled it out because joining didn't pass his five (unspecified) tests.

My take is that he realised it was a step too far for those proud Brits who valued everything associated with Empire and the past...

I'll concede thats true, back then Brown did rule it because his 5 tests weren't met. But those tests were near impossible to pass by design.

[GerryT]

I think we are about to tell the establishment for the 6th time that we want out of the EU.

No need, you're out. 

Single market with the ability to make our own nation deals would be OK.
Full EU membership? No way, José.

Are you prepare to sign up to the 4 freedoms for SM membership. That's the minimum and starting point.

We know there's no lead country, Gerry.
Where does UVDL come from?

Well the EU council has 27 members, each country usually appoints their PM. These vote for the EU commission president, UVDL got the job. Luxembourg, that massive country has had 3, France, Germany and Italy have had 2 each. The Netherlands, Portugal and UK had 1 each.  So are you trying to make a point, is it that the country controlling the EU is Luxembourg ?  What happens if Ireland gets it next time, do we then control and rule the EU ?

[GerryT]

I don't know Gerry. I guess it depends on how much the EU want the UK back in the club. At the moment it is Germany financed project. And some of the smaller nations have been told their cash is somewhat reduced

The EU would love a trade deal with the USA, but because of their food standards it's not going to happen. Even though the deal is very attractive it's against the rules.  Depends how you look at the EU, essentially all countries put in the same amount, about 0.7% of GDP, that money is then used around the EU for development, relatively it's not a lot of money. less developed countries/regions get a greater share of the pot and rightly so, it helps to develop and level the playing field. It would be like the UK spending less on London and more up North, but that's never going to happen.

Germany puts more in but it also sells more into the 27 countries, so from exports to other EU countries it benefits the most.

Besides, I doubt the UK would want to adopt the Euro nor would it want Schengen which both aren't exclusive across the membership anyway. so if the EU say no to either compromise, the UK would walk away.

It's not exclusive because members opted out as those initiatives were being introduced. The EU does "bend" for it's member states. But a new member doesn't get the same benefit's that existing member's have, that may seem unfair but the 27 member's have agreed that new member's have to meet the fiscal targets for membership and adoption of the Euro, it doesn't matter what any one country thinks, that's the rule and that's how it works. Unless of course all 27 countries agreed otherwise, which could happen.

But then if the UK were to offer A, B and C to get opt out X, Y and Z and the EU felt that was to it's benefit. THe 27 members might agree to it. But judging by the quality of the UK brexit negotiators and UK politicians, that's not likely to happen.

There be negotiations behind the scenes and they may well get their opt outs back that is all I am claiming. But its moot given neither Statmer nor Truss (or whomever), are campaigning to rejoin

Honestly I doubt you would get all 27 countries agreeing to let the UK back in, and that is required for membership. things would have to change with EU-UK relations and the UK concept that they should get exceptions. It will be decades before that attitude changes.

[Barry]

The big thing about the eu is its rules based, 27 countries agree the rules and their applied. There is no lead country, so how can the rules be bent ?  They can't.
The uk was a very poor member, there is little pitical will to "bend"
The current rules for new entry is monetary union, no opt outs and schengen. I can't see that being relaxed.  But your right, theres no political will to suggest rejoining, bar Scotland and NI that is.

We know there's no lead country, Gerry.
Where does UVDL come from?

[Barry]

I wish the UK would rejoin the EU — I cannot think of anything EU that adversely affected me — and if there's a chance the UK could rejoin the EU, I'll support the idea.

But I think the chances of rejoining as before, because of anything the UK has to offer in the way of nuclear weapons, or the size of its (shrinking) economy, are near zero.

Pushing too hard for an unrealistic outcome such as greater integration (eg, joining Schengen, and adopting the euro) is likely to antagonise both converted UK Brexit supporters and current EU members, who have to agree to let the UK back in...

Single market with the ability to make our own nation deals would be OK.
Full EU membership? No way, José.

[Barry]

The number of people who actually wanted Brexit for "real" reasons and wanted it all along is a pretty small minority of the population.  As the years go by, the support for Brexit is falling back to that small minority as the rest realise that the reasons they were persuaded to vote for Brexit in 2016 were simply lies.

I think we are about to tell the establishment for the 6th time that we want out of the EU.
The trouble is they think they know better and want to stay in.

[B0ycey]

The big thing about the eu is its rules based, 27 countries agree the rules and their applied. There is no lead country, so how can the rules be bent ?  They can't.
The uk was a very poor member, there is little pitical will to "bend"
The current rules for new entry is monetary union, no opt outs and schengen. I can't see that being relaxed.  But your right, theres no political will to suggest rejoining, bar Scotland and NI that is.

I don't know Gerry. I guess it depends on how much the EU want the UK back in the club. At the moment it is Germany financed project. And some of the smaller nations have been told their cash is somewhat reduced. Besides, I doubt the UK would want to adopt the Euro nor would it want Schengen which both aren't exclusive across the membership anyway. so if the EU say no to either compromise, the UK would walk away. There be negotiations behind the scenes and they may well get their opt outs back that is all I am claiming. But its moot given neither Statmer nor Truss (or whomever), are campaigning to rejoin.

[GerryT]

GerryT, the EU would give the UK leeway if it is mutually beneficial to do so. To be honest this is a bit of a moot argument given despite the polls, neither Starmer nor what stooge the Tories whip up will return us back home.

As for sending refugees back to France when we were in the EU, firstly you have to prove where they came from which is impossible. If I remember correctly the refugees were coming over right before the referendum and was probably the thing that swayed the polls given they WEREN'T being sent back.

The big thing about the eu is its rules based, 27 countries agree the rules and their applied. There is no lead country, so how can the rules be bent ?  They cant.
The uk was a very poor member, there is little pitical will to "bend"
The current rules for new entry is monetary union, no opt outs and schengen. I cant see that being relaxed.  But your right, theres no political will to suggest rejoining, bar Scotland and NI that is.