Project Fear

[papasmurf]

They don't have to export to the EU. Other customers are available.

You live in the middle of a fishing community and you voted against them.

There is not the export opportunities for exporting fresh fish and live shellfish.
The Fishermen shot themselves in the foot by voting for Brexit, and that has cost them dear. (With many now regretting voting for Brexit.
The ONLY reason I voted remain is because I knew the Tories would make a complete bog of it, which they have.

[Baff]

Baff, I live in the midst of the local fishing industry, despite the government propaganda, Brexit has very badly damaged the local fishing industry.  The extra cost and massive increase in regulations needed to export to the EU, has made a lot of the local fishing industry call it a day because there is no profit in it. (The problems of exporting bi-valve molluscs  to the EU have not been addressed by the Tory Government and much of the trade locally has shut down altogether.
Several of my neighbours who are inshore fishermen doubt very much they will be bothering putting their boats back in the water next spring.

They don't have to export to the EU. Other customers are available.

You live in the middle of a fishing community and you voted against them.
I'm sure your trying to convince them to give up their livelihoods is a big help.
The Tory government has done very well by the fishing industry. As from next week their quota's will rise by 40%.
Something you personally voted to prevent.

Whatever your limited experiences, the wider trend in UK fishing is clear.
I'm not suggesting that you can't find losers in any change of economic circumstances, I expect you to be able to.
But you can also find winners. And in the example of fishing, the winners far outweigh the losers. In aggregate for fishing, leaving the EU has been a massive win.
Which is exactly what everyone expected it to be. Not a surprise, but something the fishing industry actively campaigned for, for over 30 years.

If you wish to focus to the point of obsession on the losers from leaving the EU to the complete exclusion of the far more numerous winners, you are able to.
They are real. They exist.
But like all good propaganda, it's a half truth and when taken without the other side of the story provides an inaccurate understanding of events. A false picture.

[papasmurf]

The fishermen who squealed consistently and loudly for multiple decades to leave the EEC and the EU, who are now exporting more fish than they ever did inside the EEC and the EU and who's catches will now rise to greater than they have ever had inside the EEC or EU, didn't know what they were talking about.

You, Papasmurf, know much more about their livelihoods than they ever will.


Presumably you think all their multiple decades of loud wailings were just to let you know that they are racists.

Baff, I live in the midst of the local fishing industry, despite the government propaganda, Brexit has very badly damaged the local fishing industry.  The extra cost and massive increase in regulations needed to export to the EU, has made a lot of the local fishing industry call it a day because there is no profit in it. (The problems of exporting bi-valve molluscs  to the EU have not been addressed by the Tory Government and much of the trade locally has shut down altogether.
Several of my neighbours who are inshore fishermen doubt very much they will be bothering putting their boats back in the water next spring.

[Baff]

That graphic is meaningless.

The fishermen who squealed consistently and loudly for multiple decades to leave the EEC and the EU, who are now exporting more fish than they ever did inside the EEC and the EU and who's catches will now rise to greater than they have ever had inside the EEC or EU, didn't know what they were talking about.

You, Papasmurf, know much more about their livelihoods than they ever will.


Presumably you think all their multiple decades of loud wailings were just to let you know that they are racists.

[Baff]

You're talking about value, I should think it that should have gone up.
Our trade with the EU as a percentage of our overall trade has been going down for decades. In other words, our reliance on the EU is continuously going down.

We don't have a lot of reliance on the EU.
It's just a matter of consumer preference.

[papasmurf]

Exports are up, not down.

https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/315000/316266-blank-754.png

That graphic is meaningless.

[Nick]

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/284750/united-kingdom-uk-total-eu-trade-in-goods-by-trade-value.jpg

You're talking about value, I should think it that should have gone up. 
Our trade with the EU as a percentage of our overall trade has been going down for decades. In other words, our reliance on the EU is continuously going down. 

[Borchester]

What you talking about? Trade with the EU has been declining for at least the last 20 years.

And it has gotten worse after 12 years of Tory misrule !

[Baff]

What you talking about? Trade with the EU has been declining for at least the last 20 years.

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/284750/united-kingdom-uk-total-eu-trade-in-goods-by-trade-value.jpg

[Baff]

They aren't, there is still a 6 mile limit not 12 miles, if I go to 700 yards South on my location and take my binoculars  just outside the six mile limit is full of foreign fishing boats. Also the extra quota for British fishermen is useless due to the problems exporting to the EU.

Exports are up, not down.

https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/315000/316266-blank-754.png

[Nick]

Trade with the EU post Brexit has been at around the very upper levels of what it was during our membership.
The general trend over decades has been a rise in trade.
The is probably true for the general trend of non EU trade also. But I haven't checked.

In the end a change of political leadership changes neither demand nor supply.
Leaving the EU was never going to have a noticeable effect on trade.

Investment in the UK boomed after the referendum result.
Everybody loved to see a country so confident in itself and a £ so cheap.

Investment then faltered as the anti democrats refused to go along with the vote. In a self fulfilling prophecy, project fear talked the confidence out of the economy.

This reduced investor confidence continued during the weak and stagnant government of Mrs May and bounced back under Boris with his landslide victory.
Since Boris's exit, it has now gone down again.


Brexit is bad for Ireland.
Not the UK.
You are projecting you own misery on to us. We don't feel it.


It is bad for a minority of people in the UK I'll go that far with you.
Mostly this has to do with egg on faces. A lot of people not man enough to lose face.

What you talking about? Trade with the EU has been declining for at least the last 20 years. 

[Borchester]

Borchester just where have you got that impression from?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fishermen-rnli-crew-migrants-rescue-hastings-b1966959.html

[papasmurf]

Apparently the fishermen have tried to stop lifeboats rescuing immigrants.

Borchester just where have you got that impression from?

[Borchester]

They aren't, there is still a 6 mile limit not 12 miles, if I go to 700 yards South on my location and take my binoculars  just outside the six mile limit is full of foreign fishing boats. Also the extra quota for British fishermen is useless due to the problems exporting to the EU.

Apparently the fishermen have tried to stop lifeboats rescuing immigrants.

One can only hope that the government has finally realised that fishermen will moan whatever bungs they are given and that their recent action suggests that such scum are a disgrace  to Britain.

[papasmurf]

The new fisheries deals are obviously much improved from the EU common fisheries.
If you wish to deny that reality, be my guest.

They aren't, there is still a 6 mile limit not 12 miles, if I go to 700 yards South on my location and take my binoculars  just outside the six mile limit is full of foreign fishing boats. Also the extra quota for British fishermen is useless due to the problems exporting to the EU.