Tory Chief Whip and deputy resign

[cromwell]

Well the pantomime is still under way,it's a confidence vote,oh no it isn't oh yes it is.

I know the supermarkets are selling all the Christmas stuff but it's still a bit early to truss up the turkeys isn't it? 

Maybe not 

[Sheepy]

Electoral reform and a proper move towards PR would be a massive step forward for the UK and would over time return stability, so I agree with you there.

You will be begging for direct democracy eventually, unless by then the UK is just a big smouldering hole in the ground. 

[cromwell]

I broadly agree. My main hope from a hung parliament is electoral reform. For that we need Labour to be the largest party but far short of a majority, and the Tories too small to form a workable coalition. Not sure about a slimmed down Commons. If we get PR we need numbers enough to accurately reflect the will of the people. I agree with abolishing the Lords in it's current form, but believe it should be replaced by some form of elected second chamber, albeit one elected under a different system to PR. I am open to suggestion and persuasion on what form this should take.

Oh I agree on a second chamber but not the lords,slimmed down commons for the simple reason I'd see them paid a lot more with conditions and to attract better suited than this lot who are often out of their depth and more interested in their own wallets and a lucrative future post parliament funded by their actions there.

[Javert]

I broadly agree. My main hope from a hung parliament is electoral reform. For that we need Labour to be the largest party but far short of a majority, and the Tories too small to form a workable coalition. Not sure about a slimmed down Commons. If we get PR we need numbers enough to accurately reflect the will of the people. I agree with abolishing the Lords in it's current form, but believe it should be replaced by some form of elected second chamber, albeit one elected under a different system to PR. I am open to suggestion and persuasion on what form this should take.

Electoral reform and a proper move towards PR would be a massive step forward for the UK and would over time return stability, so I agree with you there.

[srb7677]

I want a hung parliament followed by voting reform ,slimmed down commons oh and lords abolished and royal family limited to monarch heir and family,the rest should sod off and get a job.

If we all have to tighten our belts should start a the top.

I broadly agree. My main hope from a hung parliament is electoral reform. For that we need Labour to be the largest party but far short of a majority, and the Tories too small to form a workable coalition. Not sure about a slimmed down Commons. If we get PR we need numbers enough to accurately reflect the will of the people. I agree with abolishing the Lords in it's current form, but believe it should be replaced by some form of elected second chamber, albeit one elected under a different system to PR. I am open to suggestion and persuasion on what form this should take.

[cromwell]

I want the same thing actually.

The last thing I want is Starmer and co to win too resoundingly. I still hope for a hung parliament in which Starmer has to work with others, but the Tories very much do need to get their act together to limit it to that.

The first prerequisite for that is that Truss must go and be replaced by Sunak or Mordaunt.

I want a hung parliament followed by voting reform ,slimmed down commons oh and lords abolished and royal family limited to monarch heir and family,the rest should sod off and get a job.

If we all have to tighten our belts should start a the top.

[srb7677]

I hope the Conservatives manage to steady themselves, rearrange their internal rules, and speedily replace Truss with someone all Tory MPs will support as prime minister.

This will give them two years to get the country and the Party on the road to recovery, and not lose the next election too severely...

I want the same thing actually.

The last thing I want is Starmer and co to win too resoundingly. I still hope for a hung parliament in which Starmer has to work with others, but the Tories very much do need to get their act together to limit it to that.

The first prerequisite for that is that Truss must go and be replaced by Sunak or Mordaunt.

[T00ts]

I hope the Conservatives manage to steady themselves, rearrange their internal rules, and speedily replace Truss with someone all Tory MPs will support as prime minister.

This will give them two years to get the country and the Party on the road to recovery, and not lose the next election too severely...

That I can agree with but unfortunately I think we are beyond that. The lynch mob is out of control and there is no decent sheriff.

[cromwell]

I hope the Conservatives manage to steady themselves, rearrange their internal rules, and speedily replace Truss with someone all Tory MPs will support as prime minister.

This will give them two years to get the country and the Party on the road to recovery, and not lose the next election too severely...

For accuracy you mean rearrange the deck chairs?

[patman post]

I hope the Conservatives manage to steady themselves, rearrange their internal rules, and speedily replace Truss with someone all Tory MPs will support as prime minister.

This will give them two years to get the country and the Party on the road to recovery, and not lose the next election too severely...

[srb7677]

What are you talking about? She was elected under the Conservative leadership rules. If she was unsuitable then the MPs got it wrong but I seem to remember that there was a lot of movement to try and put Sunak in a strong position. It didn't work and Truss was elected. By the rules she has 1 year's grace. What are you saying that she had no right to put herself forward? That she shouldn't aspire like anyone else. I thought you cared for others less able? 

Joking apart - Sunak said and did whatever would get him elected as did Truss. What depresses me is that there are those who are prepared to wreck the party for their own vanity. Instead of showing loyalty, a united front they are pulling everything apart. They deserve what is coming but sadly the country doesn't.

I never said Truss was wrong to put herself forward or shouldn't have. What I did was question the wisdom of those MPs who made her one of the front runners, and the members who voted for her. And then I criticised her utter economic ineptitude, pointing out that even though it damaged his popularity, Sunak recognised this early.

I criticised your moral and intellectual complicity in the fact that you entirely supported the Truss economic program, then sought to blame everyone but her for the very disaster Sunak so presciently predicted. You seem incapable of accepting that on this one Truss was wrong - as were you - and Sunak was right simply because you personally fully supported the Truss program.

[Sheepy]

What is coming to the country is largely inflicted by her arrogant stupidity.

If you say so, I guess the damage was inflicted a while back and whoever takes it on has a poisoned chalice, even a change of government won't help.

[cromwell]

What are you talking about? She was elected under the Conservative leadership rules. If she was unsuitable then the MPs got it wrong but I seem to remember that there was a lot of movement to try and put Sunak in a strong position. It didn't work and Truss was elected. By the rules she has 1 year's grace. What are you saying that she had no right to put herself forward? That she shouldn't aspire like anyone else. I thought you cared for others less able? 

Joking apart - Sunak said and did whatever would get him elected as did Truss. What depresses me is that there are those who are prepared to wreck the party for their own vanity. Instead of showing loyalty, a united front they are pulling everything apart. They deserve what is coming but sadly the country doesn't.

What is coming to the country is largely inflicted by her arrogant stupidity.

[T00ts]

Truss has brought her inevitable downfall upon herself, having been the wrong person for the job, chosen for the wrong reasons.

Yet you insist upon relating it as something done to her and the party rather than by her and the party.

If anyone in the party is plotting her downfall, they have been given very good reasons for doing so and a torrent of ammunition to deploy, without which they'd be silenced.

Those responsible for the current mess need to take responsibility instead of seeing themselves or their champions as victims. Truss, the> MPs who backed her, and the membership who voted for her need to own this. They are the ones who are responsible, they are not the victims here, lest it be of their own blindness and stupidity.

And dare I say that some of those in the party wanting her to go may well have their party's - and the country's - best interests at heart? 

And Sunak in the leadership contest was prepared to undermine his own popularity in defence of truth against Truss's fairy tale economics, when he pointed out to an unwilling party the likely results. And events have since vindicated him. This looks like pragmatism over ideology, the truth over popularity. And for that I am prepared to credit him with more integrity than you ever will. But then again - unlike you - I never was persuaded by the utter failure that was Trussanomics. So unlike you I have no psychological need to find anything or anyone else to blame, or see nefarious plots against a righteous leadership everywhere. Your own psychological, intellectual, and moral complicity in the Truss/Kwarteng economic disaster is clouding your judgement, it seems to me.

What are you talking about? She was elected under the Conservative leadership rules. If she was unsuitable then the MPs got it wrong but I seem to remember that there was a lot of movement to try and put Sunak in a strong position. It didn't work and Truss was elected. By the rules she has 1 year's grace. What are you saying that she had no right to put herself forward? That she shouldn't aspire like anyone else. I thought you cared for others less able?  

Joking apart - Sunak said and did whatever would get him elected as did Truss. What depresses me is that there are those who are prepared to wreck the party for their own vanity. Instead of showing loyalty, a united front they are pulling everything apart. They deserve what is coming but sadly the country doesn't. 

[srb7677]

...and so it begins - Sajid, Sunak and Gove are behind it then.

Truss has brought her inevitable downfall upon herself, having been the wrong person for the job, chosen for the wrong reasons.

Yet you insist upon relating it as something done to her and the party rather than by her and the party.

If anyone in the party is plotting her downfall, they have been given very good reasons for doing so and a torrent of ammunition to deploy, without which they'd be silenced.

Those responsible for the current mess need to take responsibility instead of seeing themselves or their champions as victims. Truss, the MPs who backed her, and the membership who voted for her need to own this. They are the ones who are responsible, they are not the victims here, lest it be of their own blindness and stupidity.

And dare I say that some of those in the party wanting her to go may well have their party's - and the country's - best interests at heart?  

And Sunak in the leadership contest was prepared to undermine his own popularity in defence of truth against Truss's fairy tale economics, when he pointed out to an unwilling party the likely results. And events have since vindicated him. This looks like pragmatism over ideology, the truth over popularity. And for that I am prepared to credit him with more integrity than you ever will. But then again - unlike you - I never was persuaded by the utter failure that was Trussanomics. So unlike you I have no psychological need to find anything or anyone else to blame, or see nefarious plots against a righteous leadership everywhere. Your own psychological, intellectual, and moral complicity in the Truss/Kwarteng economic disaster is clouding your judgement, it seems to me.