Petrol bomb attack Dover

[Nick]

Small boats not your strong point of knowledge?

They are actually, I've got an 18' GRP fishing boat with a 70HP Yamaha OB on the back. It was originally badged as a Selva but I had the engine cover resprayed and Yamaha decals added cause underneath it is actually a Yamaha, same as Mariner do. I've got a Garmin chart plotter and a Huminbird SSDS fish finder and 2 30l fuel tanks. It does about 24 knots, not as which as my mates Warrior 165 cause his is lighter.

Are you going to tell me some amazing fact about these boats coming across the Chanel, that you can't siphon fuel out of a RIB? Or are you trying to play your secret agent game again that only you knows anything about boats, when in fact I live closer to the sea than you do. If you go back and check I probably mentioned my boat when we discussing my holiday in Cornwall last summer.

[papasmurf]

It's very simple, you you take them two thirds of the way back to France and leave them enough fuel to only keep going in that direction.

Small boats not your strong point of knowledge?

[Nick]

That is unmitigated bollocks. How the f**k are you going to deliver them to France? How will you prove they came from France? Belgium is only a little further away.

Are you intending to scoop people up mid-channel and deposit them on French shores? How will you get your vessels close enough to French shores, the coast of a foreign country, to land people?

Frankly, you're talking as your belly guides you. There's no way a civilised UK can gather up unwanted people and deposit them on another country — even Rwanda would balk at tens of thousands of additional people if it was required to ensure they were treated humanely...

It's very simple, you you take them two thirds of the way back to France and leave them enough fuel to only keep going in that direction. 

I suggest you gen up on your geography Pat cause the Belgian coast is 2.5 times the distance to the U.K. than that of the French coast. 

[patman post]

That's a ridiculous thing to say, sending them back solves a great deal, most importantly it points to the French that it doesn't matter how many times you turn a blind eye you're getting them back. And amazingly we don't have to deal with them.

That is unmitigated bollocks. How the F@@@ are you going to deliver them to France? How will you prove they came from France? Belgium is only a little further away. 

Are you intending to scoop people up mid-channel and deposit them on French shores? How will you get your vessels close enough to French shores, the coast of a foreign country, to land people?

Frankly, you're talking as your belly guides you. There's no way a civilised UK can gather up unwanted people and deposit them on another country — even Rwanda would balk at tens of thousands of additional people if it was required to ensure they were treated humanely...

[Nick]

Nor does the call, to get the occupants (actual and potential) deported back to France solve anything.

That's a ridiculous thing to say, sending them back solves a great deal, most importantly it points to the French that it doesn't matter how many times you turn a blind eye you're getting them back. And amazingly we don't have to deal with them.

[papasmurf]

The petrol bomber came from High Wycombe, 66 years old, house being searched. (I hope it was not someone I know.)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63453810
28 minutes ago
Police are searching a house as they investigate a fire attack at a migrant centre at Dover Port.
Two or three devices - described as petrol bombs by a witness - were thrown by a man who was found dead at a nearby petrol station on Sunday.
Kent Police have confirmed he was a 66-year-old from the High Wycombe area - over 100 miles away from the Border Force facility.
Officers have also carried out a warrant at a property in High Wycombe.

[Streetwalker]

So an "illegal immigrants centre" makes firebombing it more understandable?

I wouldn't agree with that , I dont find any sort of violence understandable 

Calling immigrant holding and/or processing centres whatever you like solves nothing. Nor does the call, to get the occupants (actual and potential) deported back to France solve anything. France already takes many more immigrants than the does the UK.

What France does is for them to decide they can take as many as they like as long as they don't pass them on to us 

Despite the UK's wish to go it alone in its new Brexit world, people fleeing poverty and violence is a world wide problem, and Britain has shown itself unable to look after even its own coastline.

Indeed it is and we take in genuine refugees  , its the chancers that think its a free for all that people have a problem with . The coastline is something the government should be able to fix . They just need the will to do it 

Illegal immigration and refugees are problems that needs dealing with by concerted action by all the countries in the UN — each according to their ability to help.

If the UK doesn't join in — or even lead — an international effort to solve the problems caused by vast numbers of undocumented people moving across national boundaries, we'll all likely end up sleeping with sledgehammers by our beds...

I think we do more than our fair share . Our infrastructure and services  are  at breaking point  just taking in genuine refugees and legal migrants . The governments of the world ,western Europe in particular cant take in everyone ,the solutions lie in creating jobs and raising living standards  in the countries they come from  . That means trade blocks like the EU dropping its protectionist policies and actually buying their goods at a fair price .

[patman post]

I dont see anyone trying to find any excuses for what happened . Its not foreigners emergency accomodation either its an illegal immigrants centre .
Lets call it what it is and solve the problems that illegal immigration throws up ,the people there should be getting deported be it back to France or as it says on your teams shirts  a Visit to Rwanda .

So an "illegal immigrants centre" makes firebombing it more understandable?

Calling immigrant holding and/or processing centres whatever you like solves nothing. Nor does the call, to get the occupants (actual and potential) deported back to France solve anything. France already takes many more immigrants than the does the UK.

Despite the UK's wish to go it alone in its new Brexit world, people fleeing poverty and violence is a world wide problem, and Britain has shown itself unable to look after even its own coastline.

Illegal immigration and refugees are problems that needs dealing with by concerted action by all the countries in the UN — each according to their ability to help.

If the UK doesn't join in — or even lead — an international effort to solve the problems caused by vast numbers of undocumented people moving across national boundaries, we'll all likely end up sleeping with sledgehammers by our beds...

[Streetwalker]

I guess some will find excuses for firebombing foreigners' emergency accommodation, but I reckon it just part of the general nastiness that's appearing all over Britain.

I dont see anyone trying to find any excuses for what happened . Its not foreigners emergency accomodation either its an illegal immigrants centre . 
Lets call it what it is and solve the problems that illegal immigration throws up ,the people there should be getting deported be it back to France or as it says on your teams shirts  a Visit to Rwanda .

[cromwell]

I guess some will find excuses for firebombing foreigners' emergency accommodation, but I reckon it just part of the general nastiness that's appearing all over Britain.

A new group of perverts, who claim UK terror attacks have been staged, are tracking down survivors to their homes and workplaces to see if they are lying about their injuries, a BBC investigation has found.

Martin Hibbert, who was paralysed from the waist down when he and his daughter Eve were caught in the 2017 Manchester Arena blast, told the BBC he is now preparing to bring libel action against a conspiracy theorist based in Wales.

Richard D Hall has described how he physically tracks down survivors of the attack - in which 22 people were killed and more than 100 injured - to determine whether it was faked.

These types of conspiracy theories, and the abuse they inspire, echo those of Alex Jones, the US host of the conspiracist show and website Infowars, who this month was ordered to pay nearly $1bn (£861,805,000) to families of the US Sandy Hook school shooting after falsely claiming the 2012 attack was a hoax.

Nearly one in five people in the UK think terror survivors are not telling the truth about what happened to them, new research for the BBC suggests.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63412651

Worth reading the full report.

And, tonight, there's also Panorama: Disaster Deniers: Hunting the Trolls on BBC One on Monday 31 October at 20:00 GMT - and listen to the Radio 4 podcast series on BBC Sounds.

Yes Pat I started a thread on that very topic this morning
https://pol-tics.com/war-conflicts-and-terrorism/15/it-never-happened/6088/msg108893#new

[papasmurf]

You seem to be suffering the delusion that will do some good.

It did the last time they were carried out, prosecutions under modern slavery law, and using accommodation totally unfit for human habitation.  There were also a number of deportations. 

[johnofgwent]

It could do with another lot of multi-agency raids.

You seem to be suffering the delusion that will do some good.

a local establishment called I believe the grand balti became mocked as first the twelve grand balti and then the eighteen grand balti as those were the fines imposed for their employment of unregistered workers after two raids six months apart. 
when the place was later shut for runaway rat infestation the owner stood up in court and spun a yarn about not sleeping at night from not being able to hire staff and the mug of a magistrate bought into the bollox.

[papasmurf]

You are as safe as you feel I suppose . And yes there should be more raids by the immigration services and higher fines for those employing them . Cutting off the availiability of work would cut down the numbers making the crossing .

The multi-agency raids I refer to consisted of police, immigration, DWP, Social Services and others.

[Streetwalker]

It is NOT safe at all. It took three years of campaigning by me some years ago, to get the authorities to do something about illegal immigrants working by the hundreds in the area. (Most of whom looked like they had recently been liberated from a concentration camp.)
All I got was accusations of racism from those in authority until belatedly they carried out some multi-agency raids. (Which never got any publicity.)
It could do with another lot of multi-agency raids.

You are as safe as you feel I suppose . And yes there should be more raids by the immigration services and higher fines for those employing them . Cutting off the availiability of work would cut down the numbers making the crossing .

[papasmurf]

I think your pretty safe down your end papa ,the idea is to cross at the narrow point and get to London

It is NOT safe at all. It took three years of campaigning by me some years ago, to get the authorities to do something about illegal immigrants working by the hundreds in the area. (Most of whom looked like they had recently been liberated from a concentration camp.)
All I got was accusations of racism from those in authority until belatedly they carried out some multi-agency raids. (Which never got any publicity.)
It could do with another lot of multi-agency raids.