Nurses to strike

[papasmurf]

While they are striking, they can work for nursing agencies, the NHS will gladly pay over the odds to fill the gaps, as they do now.
The NHS lose, the private nursing agency and the nurse win.

You really think striking nurses are also going to be scab labour.  That is cloud cuckoo land.

[srb7677]

If that were true why has it only gone downhill? I know you didn't say it but the inference is that somehow the Gov. can really make a difference. I think we are way beyond that. Throwing money at it has gone on for ever and isn't the answer any longer without massive re-organisation. I think that is beyond possible.

It has been reorganised to death already on ideological grounds. And you want more of it? Tory reorganisation is code for more private sector profiteering and more costs for people via such things as charges and insurance rather than taxes, which would only be more complex and regressive.

We need to get back to basics in the NHS, with decent pay for qualified staff, more frontline nurses and fewer highly paid managers, with far less trying to mimic the private sector with tenders and faux competition. 

There is too much profiteering going on already, and every Tory reorganisation seems to involve ever more of it. I would not trust those ideologically driven buffoons to reorganise the NHS at all. They are more likely to kill it.

[cromwell]

If that were true why has it only gone downhill? I know you didn't say it but the inference is that somehow the Gov. can really make a difference. I think we are way beyond that. Throwing money at it has gone on for ever and isn't the answer any longer without massive re-organisation. I think that is beyond possible.

OK so Iwill ask you again would you privatise it?

[srb7677]

No cromwell it is not just political ideology. The Government does not micromanage the NHS in the way that I think you suggest. Governments don't decide how many nurses are in each ward, or who has new carpets/pictures on the walls. They don't regulate procurement or who cooks the meals. The problem is out of hand and no matter that Government has told them repeatedly what is needed in terms of care and time limits, those who have their hands on the funds spend it as they see fit and it is rarely for the benefit of patients.
It is true that the NHS has been sold down the swanny with PFI but that's down to both sides. It is beyond repair now and sadly private care/operations are growing at a phenomenal rate simply because the NHS cannot/will not deliver. There are too many examples of wastage in the NHS now to claim that it is just a matter of politics. The rot is right through the organisation and those who try within it to make the changes simply give up and work elsewhere. I may well need an op in the not too distant future and already I am opting to pay. I don't have time or inclination to be on a waiting list with no end in sight.
What do you call medical care that tells a woman (not me) that she needs a hip replacement because her bones are degenerating fast and that she needs the op within the year - 18 months? So - she asked - when can you do it? Probably 3 years was the answer.
How many are waiting interminably for diagnoses? My daughter has a degenerative condition which the NHS takes on average 8 years to diagnose they admit. After suffering throughout Covid not able to see a GP because she wasn't considered an emergency I finally persuaded her to go and have private MRI scans and see a consultant with the results. Diagnosis has been made in a month! She is already in therapy. Yes in the NHS. How? Because the Consultant made sure it happened. Is it fair? No! Should everyone get the same? Yes! But the NHS can't or won't do it.
The NHS is hogtied to mountains of pen pushers and systems that simply don't work in unison. It's a broken organisation and if it was on the free market it would be bankrupt. Not for lack of funding but basic mismanagement and let's face it too many people who don't give a toss about the patients.

The buck stops with the government who determine the overall funding levels and administrative structures, with all their constant ideologically driven meddling. That does not involve micromanaging, but they do determine the shape of the overall structure and how it operates

It is your lot who have been in ultimate charge now for over 12 years. It is no good you trying to make out that it is nothing to do with them. It won't wash.

If Labour - or indeed anyone but the Tories - had been in charge these past 12 years you'd be all over them like a rash. Your lot do not and should not get a free pass just because they are your lot.

[T00ts]

I didn't say the nhs is micromanaged by the govt.

Lets take any service be it police fire or civil service whatever as public bodies they are answerable to politicians and ultimately the people.

How they are run and the set up is ultimately down to the govt and they have to take responsibility when it goes wrong..

If that were true why has it only gone downhill? I know you didn't say it but the inference is that somehow the Gov. can really make a difference. I think we are way beyond that. Throwing money at it has gone on for ever and isn't the answer any longer without massive re-organisation. I think that is beyond possible.

[Borchester]

While they are striking, they can work for nursing agencies, the NHS will gladly pay over the odds to fill the gaps, as they do now.
The NHS lose, the private nursing agency and the nurse win.

Sounds good.

Do you think they could introduce black stockings ?

I am suffering from terminal old age which so far appears to be incurable, but a few Shirley Eaton look a likes would ease my passing.

[cromwell]

No cromwell it is not just political ideology. The Government does not micromanage the NHS in the way that I think you suggest. Governments don't decide how many nurses are in each ward, or who has new carpets/pictures on the walls. They don't regulate procurement or who cooks the meals. The problem is out of hand and no matter that Government has told them repeatedly what is needed in terms of care and time limits, those who have their hands on the funds spend it as they see fit and it is rarely for the benefit of patients.
It is true that the NHS has been sold down the swanny with PFI but that's down to both sides. It is beyond repair now and sadly private care/operations are growing at a phenomenal rate simply because the NHS cannot/will not deliver. There are too many examples of wastage in the NHS now to claim that it is just a matter of politics. The rot is right through the organisation and those who try within it to make the changes simply give up and work elsewhere. I may well need an op in the not too distant future and already I am opting to pay. I don't have time or inclination to be on a waiting list with no end in sight.
What do you call medical care that tells a woman (not me) that she needs a hip replacement because her bones are degenerating fast and that she needs the op within the year - 18 months? So - she asked - when can you do it? Probably 3 years was the answer.
How many are waiting interminably for diagnoses? My daughter has a degenerative condition which the NHS takes on average 8 years to diagnose they admit. After suffering throughout Covid not able to see a GP because she wasn't considered an emergency I finally persuaded her to go and have private MRI scans and see a consultant with the results. Diagnosis has been made in a month! She is already in therapy. Yes in the NHS. How? Because the Consultant made sure it happened. Is it fair? No! Should everyone get the same? Yes! But the NHS can't or won't do it.
The NHS is hogtied to mountains of pen pushers and systems that simply don't work in unison. It's a broken organisation and if it was on the free market it would be bankrupt. Not for lack of funding but basic mismanagement and let's face it too many people who don't give a toss about the patients.

I didn't say the nhs is micromanaged by the govt.

Lets take any service be it police fire or civil service whatever as public bodies they are answerable to politicians and ultimately the people.

How they are run and the set up is ultimately down to the govt and they have to take responsibility when it goes wrong..

[Barry]

While they are striking, they can work for nursing agencies, the NHS will gladly pay over the odds to fill the gaps, as they do now.
The NHS lose, the private nursing agency and the nurse win. 

[T00ts]

No it's not unmanageable,it's been ruined by endless rounds of ideologically driven initiatives.

On the contrary the nhs being too large has been split in to trusts where you will often find that you are ineligible for treatment if away from home.

The problem is not the nhs but the politicians who are incapable .

No cromwell it is not just political ideology. The Government does not micromanage the NHS in the way that I think you suggest. Governments don't decide how many nurses are in each ward, or who has new carpets/pictures on the walls. They don't regulate procurement or who cooks the meals. The problem is out of hand and no matter that Government has told them repeatedly what is needed in terms of care and time limits, those who have their hands on the funds spend it as they see fit and it is rarely for the benefit of patients. 
It is true that the NHS has been sold down the swanny with PFI but that's down to both sides. It is beyond repair now and sadly private care/operations are growing at a phenomenal rate simply because the NHS cannot/will not deliver. There are too many examples of wastage in the NHS now to claim that it is just a matter of politics. The rot is right through the organisation and those who try within it to make the changes simply give up and work elsewhere. I may well need an op in the not too distant future and already I am opting to pay. I don't have time or inclination to be on a waiting list with no end in sight. 
What do you call medical care that tells a woman (not me) that she needs a hip replacement because her bones are degenerating fast and that she needs the op within the year - 18 months? So - she asked - when can you do it? Probably 3 years was the answer. 
How many are waiting interminably for diagnoses? My daughter has a degenerative condition which the NHS takes on average 8 years to diagnose they admit. After suffering throughout Covid not able to see a GP because she wasn't considered an emergency I finally persuaded her to go and have private MRI scans and see a consultant with the results. Diagnosis has been made in a month! She is already in therapy. Yes in the NHS. How? Because the Consultant made sure it happened. Is it fair? No! Should everyone get the same? Yes! But the NHS can't or won't do it.
The NHS is hogtied to mountains of pen pushers and systems that simply don't work in unison. It's a broken organisation and if it was on the free market it would be bankrupt. Not for lack of funding but basic mismanagement and let's face it too many people who don't give a toss about the patients. 

[papasmurf]

True.

Nursing was all very well when it was kind hearted girls in black stockings (I am not sure how that stands for lady patients because although my local hospital has plenty of male nurses, they all appear to be as queer as nine bob notes) who gave you a reason for living, but this modern NHS that emphasis brisk incompetence and where all the nurses dress up like counter hands at Greggs seems to be missing the point.

Still, as said, most of the information is available on the internet and in English because modern doctors can't read Latin.

Borchester you really are not worth me wasting my time attempting to debate with after those disgraceful comments.

[srb7677]

So the nurses have been finally driven to strike. It was inevitable that this point would come. Year after year of pay freezes or rises well below inflation -12 years and counting now - are de facto annual pay cuts year after year which they are being dished more of now. Each and every year they are being made poorer than the last with no apparent end in sight. The service is increasingly on it's knees due to nurses and doctors voting with their feet and walking away, making the job ever more difficult for those that remain, for which they keep getting rewarded with more de facto pay cuts.

They only have two choices. Walk away altogether as ever more of them are doing, or take a stand. They have been driven into this corner, and Tory idealogues around here notwithstanding, most of the public understands their plight and will be behind them. Enough is surely enough.

[Borchester]

I agree. The choice we have at the moment is no choice. We are at the mercy of the NHS at present and they have us over a barrel. I have said for long enough that it is too big and has become unmanageable. Who thinks that nurses should be able to strike? It's not long since we were expected to stand in the street applauding them, but my experience over the years is that some work hard but that's to fill the gap that the ones gossiping around the nurses station leave.
They are great in a crisis or if something is unusual, but run of the mill care in the NHS is lacking big time. GPs are now little more than a triage centre since now most things are redirected to specialists. They are governed by their computer screens rather than really look at the patient. I always believed that the GPs' role was the overall care of patients but they no longer look at more than one problem at a time so no-one looks at your overall health they just try to treat symptoms in isolation. This is never going to really benefit anyone.

True.

Nursing was all very well when it was kind hearted girls in black stockings (I am not sure how that stands for lady patients because although my local hospital has plenty of male nurses, they all appear to be as queer as nine bob notes) who gave you a reason for living, but this modern NHS that emphasis brisk incompetence and where all the nurses dress up like counter hands at Greggs seems to be missing the point.

Still, as said, most of the information is available on the internet and in English because modern doctors can't read Latin.

[cromwell]

I agree. The choice we have at the moment is no choice. We are at the mercy of the NHS at present and they have us over a barrel. I have said for long enough that it is too big and has become unmanageable. Who thinks that nurses should be able to strike? It's not long since we were expected to stand in the street applauding them, but my experience over the years is that some work hard but that's to fill the gap that the ones gossiping around the nurses station leave.
They are great in a crisis or if something is unusual, but run of the mill care in the NHS is lacking big time. GPs are now little more than a triage centre since now most things are redirected to specialists. They are governed by their computer screens rather than really look at the patient. I always believed that the GPs' role was the overall care of patients but they no longer look at more than one problem at a time so no-one looks at your overall health they just try to treat symptoms in isolation. This is never going to really benefit anyone.

No it's not unmanageable,it's been ruined by endless rounds of ideologically driven initiatives.

On the contrary the nhs being too large has been split in to trusts where you will often find that you are ineligible for treatment if away from home.

The problem is not the nhs but the politicians who are incapable .

[T00ts]

Are you talking BUPA or something similar? Those prices are age and medical condition dependent aren't they?
They refuse to cover some existing conditions, or cancers?
No, I believe in a form of national health service, but not the NHS we have at the moment.

I agree. The choice we have at the moment is no choice. We are at the mercy of the NHS at present and they have us over a barrel. I have said for long enough that it is too big and has become unmanageable. Who thinks that nurses should be able to strike? It's not long since we were expected to stand in the street applauding them, but my experience over the years is that some work hard but that's to fill the gap that the ones gossiping around the nurses station leave.
They are great in a crisis or if something is unusual, but run of the mill care in the NHS is lacking big time. GPs are now little more than a triage centre since now most things are redirected to specialists. They are governed by their computer screens rather than really look at the patient. I always believed that the GPs' role was the overall care of patients but they no longer look at more than one problem at a time so no-one looks at your overall health they just try to treat symptoms in isolation. This is never going to really benefit anyone.

[papasmurf]

Don't have to have loads of cash, it's about £22 a month per person. Never actually used it but I know if I did I would be straight in.

All risks medical insurance is FAR more than that. (£12000 a year the last time I checked.)