Nurses to strike

[Nick]

Nick I have friends and relatives who have been nurses and served in the military on active service. (There is also a long history of both in my family going back to Flo Nightingale's hospital at Scutari, and Military service going back as far as Agincourt.)
I did not make my comment lightly, as it appears you know (expletive deleted all) about nurses or you would not be making such crass comments. (One of my relatives spent a total of seven years on and off based in Belize, killing people involved in the drugs trade.)

The UK has NEVER ran anti-drug ops out of Belize, it is an agreement between the 2 countries that the U.K. gets first rate jungle to run Taceval's, and the Belize government  gets protection from the Guats. British ground troops do not get involved in drugs wars and who ever told you they do is telling you porky pies. 
The Royal Navy has on occasion upset drug shipments but that's about it. 

[patman post]

No, but a lot of the ones that do get shot at are paid less than a nurse.

Image a knock at the door, 2 people dressed in uniforms. "I'm sorry to tell you Mr and Mrs Smith but your daughter fell asleep on the ward today, I know it must be hard for you hearing this news but our thoughts are with you."


They get to sleep in their own bed during the equivalent of their night, yes they go to the hospital, yes they work hard, but then come home. They're not walking a border between Guatemala and Belize with a full pack and an SLR for days are they?

I have to admit that I'm not following your line of though here, so you'll have to understand it for me.

What does being shot at have to do with being a nurse in the NHS?

Also, what wild imagining is getting parents informed about sleeping daughters? The pantomime season hasn't yet got into full swing.

And WTF has walking a border between Guatemala and Belize with a full pack and an SLR for days have to do with nurses' shift patterns...?

[papasmurf]

Most nurses in the UK now have a degree.

Quite, and Tony Blair is to "blame" for that.

[srb7677]

Plus you need a degree to be a nurse in the US, a big difference.

Most nurses in the UK now have a degree.

[papasmurf]

A simple question, have you ever been to Cetral America or been in the military? You obviously haven't otherwise you wouldn't be posting comments like that.

Nick I have friends and relatives who have been nurses and served in the military on active service. (There is also a long history of both in my family going back to Flo Nightingale's hospital at Scutari, and Military service going back as far as Agincourt.)
I did not make my comment lightly, as it appears you know (expletive deleted all) about nurses or you would not be making such crass comments. (One of my relatives spent a total of seven years on and off based in Belize, killing people involved in the drugs trade.)

[srb7677]

A simple question, have you ever been to Central America or been in the military? You obviously haven't otherwise you wouldn't be posting comments like that.

Are you seriously trying to make out that anyone whose pay is not as shit as a soldier's is overpaid? Does that include bankers? CEOs? Hedge fund managers? Footballers? Yourself?

Or does it only apply to ordinary working people?

Besides which, all you are really doing is highlighting the need to pay soldiers more, not nurses less.

And insofar as I understand it there is no recruitment crisis for the armed forces as there are with nurses. Clearly nurses' pay is too crap to attract sufficient numbers, a situation growing ever more pronounced with every passing year.

[patman post]

Just an example of how you use half baked statistics, your average was the median, half way between top and bottom, the exact same way I got an average of 500 a day. And seeing as some nurses in the US are earning 6 figures, that puts the lower ones on a lot less. Plus you need a degree to be a nurse in the US, a big difference.

But I stated in Reply#73: 
The US, alone, has 4.2 million registered nurses — with an average salary of $77,600 per year — out of a total 20 million healthcare and social assistance workers.

Are you suggesting nurses in the UK NHS don't need degrees? And are you certain that US nursing degrees — especially Associates Degrees — are equivalent and acceptable to the UK NHS...?

[srb7677]

Has anyone ever suggested special tax allowances or exemptions for essential public service employees?

Perhaps raising their personal allowance from £12,570 to £18,000 or £12,000 would work. Headline pay would be kept down, but they'd be compensated for the extra stress of "essentialness"...

Perhaps providing them with good quality cheap housing as married soldiers get might be worth doing? 

And exempting them from tuition fee repayment for as long as they work exclusively in the NHS, writing such debt off after 30 years?

There are definitely things we can do to help other than through pay. 

But the pay issue needs to be addressed. It should be made a legal obligation to give them annual pay rises at least in line with inflation for a start.

[Nick]

Having had both amongst my relatives and long term friends, walking a border between Guatemala and Belize with a full pack and an SLR for days is the easier option.

A simple question, have you ever been to Central America or been in the military? You obviously haven't otherwise you wouldn't be posting comments like that.

[Nick]

As you pointed out earlier: "A totally different payscape".

So do you honestly believe that a pay survey of personnel in a trained profession would include 50% who earn nothing...?

Just an example of how you use half baked statistics, your average was the median, half way between top and bottom, the exact same way I got an average of 500 a day. And seeing as some nurses in the US are earning 6 figures, that puts the lower ones on a lot less. Plus you need a degree to be a nurse in the US, a big difference.

[patman post]

Nothing to do with crap pay and long hours then?

More people means a larger pool of labour does it not? So how does that explain unfilled vacancies?

If they were paid properly for what they did the vacancies would be filled.

And the reintroduction of nurse training bursaries would help too.

Has anyone ever suggested special tax allowances or exemptions for essential public service employees?

Perhaps raising their personal allowance from £12,570 to £18,000 or £12,000 would work. Headline pay would be kept down, but they'd be compensated for the extra stress of "essentialness"...

[papasmurf]

They're not walking a border between Guatemala and Belize with a full pack and an SLR for days are they?

Having had both amongst my relatives and long term friends, walking a border between Guatemala and Belize with a full pack and an SLR for days is the easier option.

[Nick]

Most people don't get shot at.

And most people don't find themselves rostered with 12-hour shifts of 7pm to 7am, thus unable "to sleep in their own bed every night"...

No, but a lot of the ones that do get shot at are paid less than a nurse. 

Image a knock at the door, 2 people dressed in uniforms. "I'm sorry to tell you Mr and Mrs Smith but your daughter fell asleep on the ward today, I know it must be hard for you hearing this news but our thoughts are with you."


They get to sleep in their own bed during the equivalent of their night, yes they go to the hospital, yes they work hard, but then come home. They're not walking a border between Guatemala and Belize with a full pack and an SLR for days are they?

[srb7677]

And the reason for the vacancies is because the population in this country is at least 10 million more than it should be.

Nothing to do with crap pay and long hours then?

More people means a larger pool of labour does it not? So how does that explain unfilled vacancies?

If they were paid properly for what they did the vacancies would be filled.

And the reintroduction of nurse training bursaries would help too.

[patman post]

What is the mode average salary in the US BTW? Without that it means nothing: if someone is on a grand a day and another on nothing the average is 500 a day, that doesn't help the guy on nothing.

As you pointed out earlier: "A totally different payscape".

So do you honestly believe that a pay survey of personnel in a trained profession would include 50% who earn nothing...?