Remember, very little will change for now.

[Conchúr]

Once again you're getting worked up because of the obvious and inevitable consequences of your own decisions.



If you choose not to be an EU citizen, then don't complain that you can't use the EU citizens entry process.  Don't complain that you have to go through border control when a central plank of what you voted for was to impose stricter border controls on EU citizens entry to the UK.



Genuinely, what did you expect?

Yeah, people do need to come to terms with the fact that immigration processes are likely to be somewhat reciprocal.  But again — there is a lot of dishonesty on this point from the government, or at the very least an avoidance of mentioning it.  Stifling opportunities for European migrants in the UK is not some unilateral process, but will correlate to opportunities being stifled for British people coming to live and work in Europe.  



But again, the government just keep repeating this "points based system" soundbite rubbish which can mean anything to anyone.  The Migration Advisory Committee has recently called on them to actually clarify the nitty gritty and there was what seemed to me a tacit criticism by the Chair of the Committee that he understood that governments need to find "cosmetic" ways of describing things.  It sounded to me like a guy who was stopping just short of saying 'stop spoonfeeding us nonsense terms and tell us what you actually mean'.

[Scott777]

Haven't you heard,? Brexit is "done" tomorrow.



Are you saying it's the start of a long process of complex trade off between sovereignty and trade?



Who knew?



 :fcplm:

Yes, tomorrow is Brexit Day, or Independence Day, if you like.  The processes to follow will involve many things.

[BeElBeeBub]

And you.  And everyone.  Brexit day is just the start.

Haven't you heard,? Brexit is "done" tomorrow.



Are you saying it's the start of a long process of complex trade off between sovereignty and trade?



Who knew?



 :fcplm:

[Scott777]

Im not mocking yours or the wider brexiters support for brexit , im mocking this blind trust that seems to be developing in boris johnson and his conservative party.

I think people are tired and just want to leave.  The rest can wait.  But I agree not to blindly idolise BoZo.

[Scott777]

Just remember, this is your party, you own brexit, it's yours and all that follows is down to you.

And you.  And everyone.  Brexit day is just the start.

[BeElBeeBub]

The point I note in your post which I cant quote is the bit about border control lanes. Frankly, unless the bloody eu Gestapo decide to make it harder (which no doubt they will) it will get a lot easier to get through given the lanes we need are unused now ...

Once again you're getting worked up because of the obvious and inevitable consequences of your own decisions.



If you choose not to be an EU citizen, then don't complain that you can't use the EU citizens entry process.  Don't complain that you have to go through border control when a central plank of what you voted for was to impose stricter border controls on EU citizens entry to the UK.



Genuinely, what did you expect?

[BeElBeeBub]

Still in denial so all I can say is, with all due respect, go f**k ya self. We won, you lost and there is nothing you can do.

this is pretty much the only argument brexiters have left and that vanishes at 11pm tomorrow.

Have you not been listening? The EU has admitted that the UK leaving in effect halves the EU power.

genuinely, I've must have missed that.  Do you have source for that statement or did you just make it up?  Are you using the fact the UK is only one of 2 nuclear nations in the EU?

Come back with a positive to the EU of the UK leaving? The UK can show many positives of leaving, including 18+ trade deals on day ones.

You mean partially roll over 20 trade agreements we already have?

"We're going to replicate the 40 EU free trade agreements that exist before we leave the European Union so we've got no disruption of trade....



....I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave'. Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019,"

He's had an extra 10 months extension and he's still short by 20.



I'm sure we can all sleep easy in our bed knowing we have our trade with the Pacific Islands, with GDP half that of Brighton and over 9,000 miles away.



Like having all your stuff nicked and when the police return some of it you say  "lucky me! I've just been given a laptop with bust screen, a camera with no lens and half a passport! this.... is..... AMAZING!!!"

[johnofgwent]

and for completeness, here's the government's advice (such as it is) on travel after 1 Jan 2021 (i.e. when the transition is expected to end)



https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-1-january-2021">https://www.gov.uk/visit-europe-1-january-2021



some extracts







it may continue but the mobile operators are under no obligation to do so.  Crucially, the mechanism that caps how much EU networks can charge UK operators for roaming will end.  Part of the reason that free roaming can be offered is that EU27 networks cannot "scalp" UK operators for letting their subscribers use their networks.  In turn this means there is minimal cost to pass onto the UK consumers.  If the EU27 networks decide to charge more for the UK subscribers to use their networks (or even prevent them from doing so) there will be nothing the UK operators can do other than charge more.



 taking your pet on holiday is about to get harder.

The point I note in your post which I cant quote is the bit about border control lanes. Frankly, unless the bloody eu Gestapo decide to make it harder (which no doubt they will) it will get a lot easier to get through given the lanes we need are unused now ...

[T00ts]

Toots , i wouldnt have you do anything at this point. Im simply questioning this blind adoration of boris johnson and his party.



Do people have such short memories in england?



The conservatives need i remind you are the ones who have been in charge for the last decade , held the brexit ref , promised to enact it then ran away , many of them spent years shoulder to shoulder with others trying to overturn the result despite many of them  , like your man johnson , standing on a pro brexit ticket.



Im simply saying nothing has happened yet , friday is merely the first step , three and a half years later , and the tories now have completely run out of excuses for NOT delivering brexit.



They own everything , no more blaming the eu , remainers or anyone else from this point. Judge johnson by his actions not his words , and although he is giving you BRINO on friday , he is also breaking many of the promises his party made when they said eu treaties would no longer apply at the end of the article 50 period which isnt the case.

I am surprised Thomas that you see it that way. I think you would find if you scratch a little deeper that no-one, certainly not me, has total faith in BJ and frankly no politician at this point. Tomorrow is not the done deal, we are in a difficult position and with that I agree with BJ that there can be no extension past December, but there was always going to be a transition period and it was always going to look a bit like this. This will evolve - let's face it there are a lot of extraneous factors which we would be stupid to ignore. A possible war in the Middle East which could create unexpected alliances. Russia is about to create a supreme leader in Putin. That is a man in a power frenzy who once in guaranteed permanent power may well reveal the megalomaniac that I believe he is. That's without the menace of Kim Jong-Un whose mentality seems unfathomable and Trump likewise. Then there is the rest of the world striving for power which we can't ignore.



We are in a very uncertain world and our way forward I think is a bit clouded at present. Sad tears and Auld Lang Syne at the EU yesterday did little for our World standing and even less for our negotiating position. Perhaps they had more to do with the loss of gravy train than politics.



I think we should progress determinedly but mindfully but whether we have the right mix of employees in Parliament to carry that through I really don't know. The proof will be in the Christmas pudding at the end of the year.

As a staunch SNP follower you are less pragmatic perhaps than we 'little Englanders'. We will worm our way through rather than take the Scottish way of hitting the wall with a sledgehammer   and as a last resort we will if really necessary take to the polling booths. They say a week in politics is a long time, imagine what might be in the next 11 months.

[Thomas]

Other than bombs on Parliament Square I am not sure what you would have us do at this point. BJ and the rest must be dimmer than we give credit for if he honestly thinks that having been given a majority like he now enjoys on the back of those promises he can sit back  and play party games with the EU or anyone else. Perhaps you forget that Brexit has the strength in Downing St it will be interesting to see what the forthcoming shuffle produces. At this stage we have to let them perform then judge.

Toots , i wouldnt have you do anything at this point. Im simply questioning this blind adoration of boris johnson and his party.



Do people have such short memories in england?



The conservatives need i remind you are the ones who have been in charge for the last decade , held the brexit ref , promised to enact it then ran away , many of them spent years shoulder to shoulder with others trying to overturn the result despite many of them  , like your man johnson , standing on a pro brexit ticket.



Im simply saying nothing has happened yet , friday is merely the first step , three and a half years later , and the tories now have completely run out of excuses for NOT delivering brexit.



They own everything , no more blaming the eu , remainers or anyone else from this point. Judge johnson by his actions not his words , and although he is giving you BRINO on friday , he is also breaking many of the promises his party made when they said eu treaties would no longer apply at the end of the article 50 period which isnt the case.

[Thomas]

I don't trust any of them Thomas and if you or anyone else does laugh it ain't the end of the world,I trusted labour for years only to realise it was pointless and an exercise in fooling myself I only support Boris & co (like many in the north) because they promised to honour the referendum,I maintain what I said to you a while back the Tories are a bunch of bastards but a least you know it,with labour they camouflaged it all but are as big bastards if not more so.



TBH Thomas tired of it all really and Conor and beebly telling me what I voted for and why I did and how it ain't going to happen and how foolish it all is and ignoring what's actually posted  :shrg:



If this country does crawl back (and I hope we don't) then they will get all they deserve.

i understand all that cromwell , im simply saying never trust a tory , to quote streetwalker.



As for labour , i wouldnt take much notice of them. On current trajectory , labour will be lucky to be in charge of local councils never mind anything else.

[Thomas]

Do you remember when Thatcher started up? All the leftwinger lovies were up in arms and the BBC were treating it as if it were a German invasion in WW2. Moving on a few year s though, once she had shut down al the loss-making state subsidised industry it made space for new capitalist enterprise. This in turn meant she could drop taxes which meant in turn industry could use the money to invest and ultimately the wages rose for the majority. The dole queues went down and it all looked lovely and sunny. On sunny days like this the political land is prone to result in landslides. I wonder if Mr Johnson manages to sort the Scotsman's wallet out so it has more notes in it, whether that might influence him.

What the feck has thatcher and world war 2 got to do with anything we are talking about lotsov?

[Thomas]

To be fair it's pretty difficult to prepare when you don't know what to prepare for.



Leaving the EU is only half the equation, what will the conditions be after?

Are you then agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?



I repeat again streetwalker said business need the next 11 months transition to prepare for leaving the eu. I said i dont agree with this.



Business have known since the summer of 2016 the uk is leaving the eu. 3 and a half years ago. They have had that time to broadly make preparations  , many of them having put plans and funds in place to broadly prepare however they could ,  without knowing exactly the finer details of what a new trade deal will be .



The point im making is Friday is only the completion of the WA , which has taken 3 half years. We then go into as you well know an eleven month transition.



So the point im clearly making is if you think business couldnt prepare for leaving the eu in 3 half years as they didnt know what they were preparing for , how are they going to be any better prepared than now in 11 months time when every commentator  , from the eu , the uk government , journalists politicians etc etc have said since 2016 that the eu will not start talking trade deals with the uk till the uk is a third party outside the eu , (on friday) and then typically eu trade deals take 7 - 10 years to negotiate?



So do you agree with me , or do you agree with streetwalkers insinuation that 11 more months is what is needed for business to prepare as a trade deal between the eu/uk will miraculously materialise in 11 months instead of 7 years?



I dont really see whats difficult about my point for folk to understand? If i remember aright beely , you were one of the one who said you believed a trade deal would take years to negotiate?



Are people on this forum telling me they believe boris johnson bullshit that a trade deal will be done in 11 months?



I mean i understand many brexiters not being bothered either way as they hope the uk hard brexits in 11 months if a trade deal isnt done , but you beely?



Surely you dont believe that?

[Nick]

Just to get ahead of anyone who points to the lack of any determinable changes on 1st February...



This is because we will still have FoM, be in the single market and customs union and able to take advantage of the various low friction trade agreements.



As both Ireland and NI/UK will be in the SM/CU there will be no border between the North and South in Ireland or in the Irish sea



Until at least 31st December 2020 the UK will be in the transition period where almost all the EU rights and obligations still apply.



What will have changed is:



The UK will have left the EU and no longer be a member, as per the 2016 referendum question.  As Johnson has said "brexit is done", supporters can no longer rely on the referendum for any mandate.



The UK will no longer have any say in EU decisions



There are some justice effects - mainly around extradition.



There may be some issues around some FTA's with rules of origin.



Also to look out for: The 40 trade deals we will have signed a few seconds after midnight.  By breakfast on om the 1st we were promised 40 trade deals.  That seems to have gone quiet but I look forward to seeing the outcome.



The real change will kick in at the end of 2020 (if Johnson keeps his word about not extending) when the transition ends and we move to whatever agreements have been made by then.  If nothing has been agreed tat is when there will be a step change.



It will be interesting to see if the EU caves, as many here have predicted, and gives the UK "the exact same benefits as single market membership" we were promised.  Maybe the German car makers will finally force the German government to tell the EU what to do, again as predicted.  I am skeptical.



It will also be interesting to see how the US/UK trade talks go.  Will Trump honour his promise to provide a "great" trade deal for the UK, or will the UK join the (not insubstantial) list of people that Trump has lied to?



So enjoy Friday night Leavers, this is what you have all worked for.  If it goes as well as you told us it will, the UK will be a wonderful place.  I hope you are right and I (we) are wrong.  



Just remember, this is your party, you own brexit, it's yours and all that follows is down to you.



Good luck to us all!

Still in denial so all I can say is, with all due respect, go F@@@ ya self. We won, you lost and there is nothing you can do.



Have you not been listening? The EU has admitted that the UK leaving in effect halves the EU power.



Come back with a positive to the EU of the UK leaving? The UK can show many positives of leaving, including 18+ trade deals on day ones.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Bojo received the proverbial political slaughtering in scotland in december and is merely acting like a wee dictator to us. Long may it continue.



 ::

Do you remember when Thatcher started up? All the leftwinger lovies were up in arms and the BBC were treating it as if it were a German invasion in WW2. Moving on a few year s though, once she had shut down al the loss-making state subsidised industry it made space for new capitalist enterprise. This in turn meant she could drop taxes which meant in turn industry could use the money to invest and ultimately the wages rose for the majority. The dole queues went down and it all looked lovely and sunny. On sunny days like this the political land is prone to result in landslides. I wonder if Mr Johnson manages to sort the Scotsman's wallet out so it has more notes in it, whether that might influence him.