Remember, very little will change for now.

[Thomas]

It is rather Beely.



The other 19 nations are either net recipients (17 members) or their contributions balance out whatever they get back (2 members). So the only way for the EU to cut its costs would be to tell Poland, Greece, Romania, Hungary, Portugal, Czech Republic, Belgium, Luxembourg, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Slovakia, Latvia, Estonia, Croatia, Slovenia, Malta, Spain and Cyprus to take its hand out of Brussels' pocket.



But that isn't going to happen so when the UK finally turns the tap off the EU will lose about 10%  of its members but 13% of its income. That probably won't worry the Germans who will have to take up the slack. The ones I know have always struck me as decent, liberal sorts who rather enjoy a good kick in the nuts. I am not so sure about the French who tend to be tight arsed sods who are sensitive to any blow  to their wallets.

ah borkie , evertime i read one of your posts , i am reminded of De Tocquevilles famous quote....

The French want no-one to be their superior. The English want inferiors. The Frenchman constantly raises his eyes above him with anxiety. The Englishman lowers his beneath him with satisfaction.

[/b][/i]





200 years on not much is changed eh? ::  



Did you see the eu parliament sing " auld lang syne" to scotland and tell us they are leaving a light on for us?



Of course you might want to readjust your yookay figues  , you need to factor in northern ireland remaining in the eu , and if we go , thats ten per cent of the yookays GDP taken off at the knees before mineral wealth etc is factored in. :thup:



I think the eu might do very well out of it all in the end.

[Thomas]

Well its a good excuse for a party and a chance to as the other thread goes 'rub their noses in it . Its the day we left even if we haven't left yet   ::



Maybe it wont give business the chance to sort out their stuff but at least they will know the where and what of it all . Your right though it wasnt a major concern for me ,people who make business , make money will always find a way . That it was easier for them at I might add the cost of the British worker is something they will have to get over .

Hope you enjoy it streetwalker.



Business wont sort anything out in 11 months in my honest opinion. Business are opposed to leaving the eu as it isnt in their interests , and this has been the crux of many major political issues over the years where politicians put the interests of business over the interests of the people time and again.

[Barry]

But that isn't going to happen so when the UK finally turns the tap off the EU will lose about 10%  of its members but 13% of its income. That probably won't worry the Germans who will have to take up the slack. The ones I know have always struck me as decent, liberal sorts who rather enjoy a good kick in the nuts. I am not so sure about the French who tend to be tight arsed sods who are sensitive to any blow  to their wallets.

Truly laughing out loud at that, Borchester.  ::



I'm sure they'll learn to live with the deficit, after all, we've been told countless times that the cost of being in the EU is less than a cup of coffee a week, so they won't notice a thing. They just need to drink one less coffee a week, they'll be fine.  :hattip

[cromwell]

It is rather Beely.



The other 19 nations are either net recipients (17 members) or their contributions balance out whatever they get back (2 members). So the only way for the EU to cut its costs would be to tell Poland, Greece, Romania, Hungary, Portugal, Czech Republic, Belgium, Luxembourg, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Slovakia, Latvia, Estonia, Croatia, Slovenia, Malta, Spain and Cyprus to take its hand out of Brussels' pocket.



But that isn't going to happen so when the UK finally turns the tap off the EU will lose about 10%  of its members but 13% of its income. That probably won't worry the Germans who will have to take up the slack. The ones I know have always struck me as decent, liberal sorts who rather enjoy a good kick in the nuts. I am not so sure about the French who tend to be tight arsed sods who are sensitive to any blow  to their wallets.

It's no use we all have to accept that the price of accepting a democratic vote is that all those who voted leave are half wits and will come to understand the error of their ways.



Till they do there will be timely reminders of their half wittedness from Conor and Beebly.  ::

[johnofgwent]

This is a classic example of brexit thinking......



When you were travelling how many times were you travelling on nonEU carriers from noEU countries?  I'm willing to bet not that many times.



If you are arriving in Europe on an EU carrier (say BA or Air France) and especially if you are arriving from an EU country e.g. the UK, what % of the passengers are non-EU citizens?  A small proportion, so of course the lines are shorter, the crucial thing is each entry takes longer.  



The official wait time airports are expected to hit for 95% of passengers is 25m for EEA passengers and 45m for nonEEA.



After Brexit flights from the UK to Europe will now have a majority of non-EU citizens on them.  How long do you think the lines will get, esp if there's some idiot in front of you spouting off at the passport officer  "I'm British don't ya know! Gunboats!"





.

This bit is just an ill informed word salad of jingoism.  



"Gun Boats"  ::



I suppose your solution to getting a trade deal with China is a bit of gunboat diplomacy like last time?  ::

You are twisting my words again.



I spoke as a traveller with a british passport arriving at one EEC country and latterly EU country from another and noting I was in a massive queue of EEC / EU nationals while maybe half a dozen on my flight or ferry taking the same journey walked through an empty hallway for NON EU nationals



And as I dont travel much these days because I dont freelance any more, my last five journeys were UK to Alaska and back, UK to Greece and Back, UK to Spain and back, UK to Denmark, train to Germany, train to Switzerland, train to france, ferry to Dover... and the one before that Uzk to Mexico and back.



And at every customs border I had a huge queue, the yank, chinese and aussie (to name the three groups I chatted with en route) sailed through an empty line.



Now, try twisting that.

[BeElBeeBub]

Well, I certainly expected you to twist my words and I was not disappointed



In my travels over the last years I have always found the 'EU' lanes crowded and the non-EU ones empty. My point was that in fact we are now going to have an easier time in the far less used non eu lanes....

This is a classic example of brexit thinking......



When you were travelling how many times were you travelling on nonEU carriers from noEU countries?  I'm willing to bet not that many times.



If you are arriving in Europe on an EU carrier (say BA or Air France) and especially if you are arriving from an EU country e.g. the UK, what % of the passengers are non-EU citizens?  A small proportion, so of course the lines are shorter, the crucial thing is each entry takes longer.  



The official wait time airports are expected to hit for 95% of passengers is 25m for EEA passengers and 45m for nonEEA.



After Brexit flights from the UK to Europe will now have a majority of non-EU citizens on them.  How long do you think the lines will get, esp if there's some idiot in front of you spouting off at the passport officer  "I'm British don't ya know! Gunboats!"

Unless the Euro Gestapo choose to make life difficult. They need to understand, however, that the mood has changed. When I took my honeymoon in Italy my passport made it clear that f*cking me, a british subject about, would cause gunboats up the junta.



We may not have much to.put on our aircraft carrier but our type 45s are afloat and available and in need of testing...

.

This bit is just an ill informed word salad of jingoism.  



"Gun Boats"  ::



I suppose your solution to getting a trade deal with China is a bit of gunboat diplomacy like last time?  ::

[Borchester]

I see, but we also receive more spending than the 7 smallest countries so you could also argue that the EU is losing a quarter of it's costs!



Which is an equally daft way to measure it



In net terms the UK contributes between 5% and 10% of the budget.

It is rather Beely.



The other 19 nations are either net recipients (17 members) or their contributions balance out whatever they get back (2 members). So the only way for the EU to cut its costs would be to tell Poland, Greece, Romania, Hungary, Portugal, Czech Republic, Belgium, Luxembourg, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Slovakia, Latvia, Estonia, Croatia, Slovenia, Malta, Spain and Cyprus to take its hand out of Brussels' pocket.



But that isn't going to happen so when the UK finally turns the tap off the EU will lose about 10%  of its members but 13% of its income. That probably won't worry the Germans who will have to take up the slack. The ones I know have always struck me as decent, liberal sorts who rather enjoy a good kick in the nuts. I am not so sure about the French who tend to be tight arsed sods who are sensitive to any blow  to their wallets.

[Baron von Lotsov]

I remember very well.



I remember she threw me out of my job funded by the medical research council because she did not want the mechanism of antigen reaction at the cell surface researched by British scientists, she threw my brother out of work making the finest grade steel in the world at the time, he never worked properly again, he like the rest she threw into the gutter were left to die in the gutter to please her banker party donors and she almost managed to throw my little brother on the file from his job in what was soon to be called BT too.



The callous manner by which she left those people to die in the gutter is the reason the shower of sh*t they call the labour party still has MPs.



Had she taken steps to find that workforce work instead of leaving it on the dole, two further generations would have grown up with hope, instead of hatred and despair. And Boris wouldn't need armed guards north of Chepstow and west of Monmouth.

Yes of course there were babies with the bathwater. I watched a TV film on the biography of Clive Sinclair a while back. I think that was about the time. He had a factory making various bits and bobs, and one of the latest inventions was a pocket-sized TV. It was a great and fascinating thing, like I guess it would have been the future if it were inspected on Tomorrow's World, but the thing was the factory was subsidised by us, the consumer, even if we did not want a pocket TV. Basically more and more money was being pumped into it and the beast just turned a constant and increasing loss. This was the archetype of the problem Thatcher took on. The government though was kind of fair to the man. They had to shut him down but gave him a cheque of enough money so he could afford to rent out a small office in Cambridge and employ one or two people for a short time. That was it though. He had to think up something quick or he would have lost that money too. He did and the rest was history, and Thatcher respected him greatly.



What many would have done is to take the cash and piss it up down the pub, but starting a new technology business on your own is the thing Thatcher preached, and things did work out. The mobile phone was one huge money spinner for the country, and there was other stuff too. I think the moral of the story is, like indeed where we are now, where we are really going to have to forget the shit of the past. If they all go bust it would not matter if the new stuff was super-potent. You have businesses these days like Google spring out of nowhere and become multibillion pound operations because they start from scratch and fit the current need. The only real problem i had with Thatcher's approach was the move into financial services. We have become the dodgy banker of the world and as many will say, corruption destroys a nation. So if they all go bust we would not care. The Chinese got into heavy engineering first of all and that went pear-shaped, and yet they pulled out by the new stuff. While that was failing small factories of consumer products were springing up. If the conditions are right they could here as well.

[johnofgwent]

Once again you're getting worked up because of the obvious and inevitable consequences of your own decisions.



If you choose not to be an EU citizen, then don't complain that you can't use the EU citizens entry process.  Don't complain that you have to go through border control when a central plank of what you voted for was to impose stricter border controls on EU citizens entry to the UK.



Genuinely, what did you expect?

Well, I certainly expected you to twist my words and I was not disappointed



In my travels over the last years I have always found the 'EU' lanes crowded and the non-EU ones empty. My point was that in fact we are now going to have an easier time in the far less used non eu lanes....



Unless the Euro Gestapo choose to make life difficult. They need to understand, however, that the mood has changed. When I took my honeymoon in Italy my passport made it clear that f*cking me, a british subject about, would cause gunboats up the junta.



We may not have much to.put on our aircraft carrier but our type 45s are afloat and available and in need of testing...

[BeElBeeBub]

No, it's because the UK pay the same as the bottom 17 countries combined. It's the equivalent of losing 18 countries, it was an EU spokesman who said it, not me.

I see, but we also receive more spending than the 7 smallest countries so you could also argue that the EU is losing a quarter of it's costs!



Which is an equally daft way to measure it



In net terms the UK contributes between 5% and 10% of the budget.



Of course if no future arrangement is agreed in 11 months time the EU will be collecting a couple of billion € of tariffs on imports from the UK....

[johnofgwent]

Do you remember when Thatcher started up? All the leftwinger lovies were up in arms and the BBC were treating it as if it were a German invasion in WW2. Moving on a few year s though, once she had shut down al the loss-making state subsidised industry it made space for new capitalist enterprise. This in turn meant she could drop taxes which meant in turn industry could use the money to invest and ultimately the wages rose for the majority. The dole queues went down and it all looked lovely and sunny. On sunny days like this the political land is prone to result in landslides. I wonder if Mr Johnson manages to sort the Scotsman's wallet out so it has more notes in it, whether that might influence him.

I remember very well.



I remember she threw me out of my job funded by the medical research council because she did not want the mechanism of antigen reaction at the cell surface researched by British scientists, she threw my brother out of work making the finest grade steel in the world at the time, he never worked properly again, he like the rest she threw into the gutter were left to die in the gutter to please her banker party donors and she almost managed to throw my little brother on the file from his job in what was soon to be called BT too.



The callous manner by which she left those people to die in the gutter is the reason the shower of shit they call the labour party still has MPs.



Had she taken steps to find that workforce work instead of leaving it on the dole, two further generations would have grown up with hope, instead of hatred and despair. And Boris wouldn't need armed guards north of Chepstow and west of Monmouth.

[Streetwalker]

ok fair enough mate. Im simply trying to put a lid on what seemed as otherwise OTT celebrations for what is nothing more than a  damp squib on friday.





...but your point was not that they are prepared just now , but that 11 more months will make a difference.



There wont be a trade deal done with all the finer points tidied up for business to prepare for in 11 months ,so what im saying is dont fall into the tory trap of saying endless extensions are needed for business to prepare or you might just find yourself perpetually being told the same thing at the end of each transition period  , that a further extension will be required ad infinitum.



If business was your concern from day one , and it wasnt , you would never have been a brexiter as the vast majority of business in the uk and business groups are pro european and dont want to leave the eu .

Well its a good excuse for a party and a chance to as the other thread goes 'rub their noses in it . Its the day we left even if we haven't left yet   ::



Maybe it wont give business the chance to sort out their stuff but at least they will know the where and what of it all . Your right though it wasnt a major concern for me ,people who make business , make money will always find a way . That it was easier for them at I might add the cost of the British worker is something they will have to get over .

[Thomas]

Look Thomas we are where we are and me or other leavers  going ballistic isn't going to change that .  I agree Friday changes little ,I said as much ,but its the real start of seeing whats going to be on the table or indeed taken off .



Your wrong ,I don't trust Johnson and my rule of never trust a Tory stands . They were though the only way we were going to reach this point ,the alternatives would have seen us remain and is why the Brexit vote voted Tory at the election as I say giving Johnson a bigger than he thought majority .





When he  goes back on his promise of no political alliance we will be ready to go ballistic .

ok fair enough mate. Im simply trying to put a lid on what seemed as otherwise OTT celebrations for what is nothing more than a  damp squib on friday.

Yes they have had nearly 4 years to prepare but they don't really know what they are preparing for , do you ?

...but your point was not that they are prepared just now , but that 11 more months will make a difference.



There wont be a trade deal done with all the finer points tidied up for business to prepare for in 11 months ,so what im saying is dont fall into the tory trap of saying endless extensions are needed for business to prepare or you might just find yourself perpetually being told the same thing at the end of each transition period  , that a further extension will be required ad infinitum.



If business was your concern from day one , and it wasnt , you would never have been a brexiter as the vast majority of business in the uk and business groups are pro european and dont want to leave the eu .

[Nick]

genuinely, I've must have missed that.  Do you have source for that statement or did you just make it up?  Are you using the fact the UK is only one of 2 nuclear nations in the EU?

No, it's because the UK pay the same as the bottom 17 countries combined. It's the equivalent of losing 18 countries, it was an EU spokesman who said it, not me.

[Streetwalker]

its a strange argument streetwalker regarding your blind acceptance of an 11 month extension ( negotiated by may might i add)and BRINO , when from memory many of you on the old forum this time last year were going ballistic regarding theresa may doing the same thing( possibility of an extension )and offering a similar BRINO.



So while i understand some of the things you are saying in your post , i still fail to see the significance of friday in any way? Very little is changing for now ,( mere empty symbolism) so what is the celebrations  all about and toots calling for everyone coming together when you havent still got your brexit that you all argued for over the last four years?



You also may i say sound very very trusting of boris johnson , breaking your own old cardinal rule of never ever trusting a tory you always used to say to me on the old forum.



If this is what brexit ends up as , some empty half hearted symbolic gesture of ten bob bits and a few rings on big ben , by feck you are going to be a laughing stock.



I wouldnt trust boris johnson as far as i could throw him , and from what i can see he is merely kicking the can down the road the same as may did only being a bit more subtle and fly about it.

Look Thomas we are where we are and me or other leavers  going ballistic isn't going to change that .  I agree Friday changes little ,I said as much ,but its the real start of seeing whats going to be on the table or indeed taken off .



Your wrong ,I don't trust Johnson and my rule of never trust a Tory stands . They were though the only way we were going to reach this point ,the alternatives would have seen us remain and is why the Brexit vote voted Tory at the election as I say giving Johnson a bigger than he thought majority .





When he  goes back on his promise of no political alliance we will be ready to go ballistic .



Ive just noticed your other post with regard Business being ready . Yes they have had nearly 4 years to prepare but they don't really know what they are preparing for , do you ?