Have a cruelty free Christmas

[papasmurf]

I think the issue is not availability but absorption.

That is the heart of the matter.  My wife who eats enough meat to feed a tiger, has B12 deficiency (hereditary inherited from her dad.) She has to have a B12 injection every 12 weeks. 

[johnofgwent]

Worth reading if you're really interested:

Animal products, including dairy products, are the primary source of vitamin B12.  Plants can also be a source of vitamin B12, giving vegetarians plenty of options.

Vitamin B12 from plants is available from a variety of sources, including nutritional yeast, fortified foods, cereals, mushrooms, and some algae. These vegetarian sources of vitamin B12 are an excellent way for vegans to include the nutrient in their diets.

https://www.webmd.com/diet/what-are-plant-food-sources-vitamin-b12

I guess you could class foods that are vegetarian sources of vitamin B12 as supplements, but that would be stretching the point...

I think the issue is not availability but absorption.

B vitamins are funny things, and if I recall correctly B12 is taken up very slowly across the gut membrane, hence the vegan society statement recommending supplements.

It's been decades since I was an expert on the transport of materials across the intestinal cell walls into the bloodstream so it's all a bit murky now, but the fact you transport at best 50% and then only if taken regularly throughout your meals tells me there is no active transport paradigm as there is for glucose and other sugars, amino acids and water there is only diffusion.

As I said earlier adults prepared to research the issue can do it, but with kids the matter is less certain and it pleases me greatly the vegan society has understood (at last, perhaps) that the fundamentalists amongst them may be dying out through utter failure of their progeny surviving to breeding age, a matter I like to think of as evolution in action.

[Nalaar]

Not at all. As that website I reference stated without supplements of some kind, it is not possible.

Eating/drinking fortified food/drinks, or cooking with nutritional yeast etc is not "very difficult" in my opinion.

[patman post]

Not at all. As that website I reference stated without supplements of some kind, it is not possible.

Worth reading if you're really interested:

Animal products, including dairy products, are the primary source of vitamin B12.  Plants can also be a source of vitamin B12, giving vegetarians plenty of options.

Vitamin B12 from plants is available from a variety of sources, including nutritional yeast, fortified foods, cereals, mushrooms, and some algae. These vegetarian sources of vitamin B12 are an excellent way for vegans to include the nutrient in their diets.

https://www.webmd.com/diet/what-are-plant-food-sources-vitamin-b12

I guess you could class foods that are vegetarian sources of vitamin B12 as supplements, but that would be stretching the point...

[Borchester]

Throughout history mankind has eaten whatever was available and provided there was enough of it, thrived.

We are probably taller and heavier than our forefathers, but that does not make us fitter.

So ignore all these websites rattling on about vitamin this and something else that. They are most mostly written by whey faced hysterics who could all do with a decent dinner of whatever they fancy

[papasmurf]

It would seem that we have quite different understandings of the meaning of the words "very difficult".

Not at all. As that website I reference stated without supplements of some kind, it is not possible.

[johnofgwent]

A piece of advice from that link PS put up.

[Nalaar]

Not that are any use.

More at link:-
Vegan Nutrition | Vegan B12 | Everything you need to know (vegansociety.com)

It would seem that we have quite different understandings of the meaning of the words "very difficult". 

[Nick]

Actually the Indian diet is very good with centuries of experience and knowledge passed down, but I'm talking about young Milly who goes vegan by just looking at a few magazine pictures and supermarket shelves. They might turn thin instead of obese but chances are by the time they are 60 the NHS or whatever it is by then will be over-run with replacement joint operations.

Yes, but in India they have a very good understanding of what spices are good for you and what they do, they also have a very big Ayurvedic culture which keeps them healthy. 

[papasmurf]

This is untrue, there are many plant based sources of B12

Not that are any use. 

More at link:-
Vegan Nutrition | Vegan B12 | Everything you need to know (vegansociety.com)

To get the full benefit of a vegan diet, vegans should do one of the following:

• Eat fortified foods two or three times a day to get at least three micrograms (mcg or µg) of B12 a day
• OR  Take one B12 supplement daily providing at least 10 micrograms
• OR  Take a weekly B12 supplement providing at least 2000 micrograms.

If relying on fortified foods, check the labels carefully to make sure you are getting enough B12. For example, if a fortified plant milk contains 1 microgram of B12 per serving then consuming three servings a day will provide adequate vitamin B12. Others may find the use of B12 supplements more convenient and economical.
The less frequently you obtain B12 the more B12 you need to take, as B12 is best absorbed in small amounts. The recommendations above take full account of this. There is no harm in exceeding the recommended amounts or combining more than one option.
Good information supports vegan health, pass it around.
If you don't read another word about B12, you already know all you need to know. If you want to know more, read on.

[Nalaar]

Female vegetarians at greater risk of hip fracture | University of Leeds

This is interesting and looks like a good study, more of this would be great.

It is very difficult to get sufficient B12 with a vegan diet.

This is untrue, there are many plant based sources of B12

Then there is this that applies to vegetarians and must also be a risk to vegans:-

I would caution against using words like "must" when you're making an assumption that was not part of the quoted study.

[T00ts]

Maybe Toots, but I have Indian friends who are Vegan with a cherry on top and their kids are about nine feet tall and as fit as fiddles.

Generally speaking doctors are ok if you want some for your daughter to marry, but not to be taken too seriously.

Actually the Indian diet is very good with centuries of experience and knowledge passed down, but I'm talking about young Milly who goes vegan by just looking at a few magazine pictures and supermarket shelves. They might turn thin instead of obese but chances are by the time they are 60 the NHS or whatever it is by then will be over-run with replacement joint operations.

[Borchester]

I think it is commonly understood that a diet including some meat provides all the nutrients for growth particularly in the young. There is evidence in a variety of reports that those fed vegan tend to be underweight and a particular worry is the lack of calcium. Anyone considering a vegan diet would do well to carefully study the requirements rather than just hitting the supermarket isles for vegans. As fast as you will find a study questioning the vegan diet you will find those that favour it. My feeling is that too many will or have made the change without proper study and since this trend in the masses is still in it's infancy it will be some years before there can be a true judgement.

Maybe Toots, but I have Indian friends who are Vegan with a cherry on top and their kids are about nine feet tall and as fit as fiddles.

Generally speaking doctors are ok if you want some for your daughter to marry, but not to be taken too seriously.

[papasmurf]

Thank you I was looking for that and didn't find it. That's the report I remembered.

My wife has hereditary B12 deficiency, and has to have a B12 injection every 12 weeks. (She also eats enough meat to feed a Tiger.) 

[T00ts]

It is very difficult to get sufficient B12 with a vegan diet.

Then there is this that applies to vegetarians and must also be a risk to vegans:-

Female vegetarians at greater risk of hip fracture | University of Leeds

Thank you I was looking for that and didn't find it. That's the report I remembered.