Have a cruelty free Christmas

[papasmurf]

I think it is commonly understood that a diet including some meat provides all the nutrients for growth particularly in the young. There is evidence in a variety of reports that those fed vegan tend to be underweight and a particular worry is the lack of calcium. Anyone considering a vegan diet would do well to carefully study the requirements rather than just hitting the supermarket isles for vegans. As fast as you will find a study questioning the vegan diet you will find those that favour it. My feeling is that too many will or have made the change without proper study and since this trend in the masses is still in it's infancy it will be some years before there can be a true judgement.

It is very difficult to get sufficient B12 with a vegan diet.

Then there is this that applies to vegetarians and must also be a risk to vegans:- 

Female vegetarians at greater risk of hip fracture | University of Leeds

[T00ts]

Again the claim you made was "Very few manage a healthy vegan diet" is this in reference to a particular study or is it just more of a feeling you have based on 'a variety of reports' you have seen?

I think it is commonly understood that a diet including some meat provides all the nutrients for growth particularly in the young. There is evidence in a variety of reports that those fed vegan tend to be underweight and a particular worry is the lack of calcium. Anyone considering a vegan diet would do well to carefully study the requirements rather than just hitting the supermarket isles for vegans. As fast as you will find a study questioning the vegan diet you will find those that favour it. My feeling is that too many will or have made the change without proper study and since this trend in the masses is still in it's infancy it will be some years before there can be a true judgement.

[srb7677]

There is no doubt that vegans are shit in an iron bucket, but even a broken clock is right twice a day and so I ain't having turkey this Christmas

I have bought a small turkey to share with my mum on Christmas day. I do it every year. I buy it. She cooks it. My name is on the drumsticks. It is only once a year, so I'll put up with it being a bit pricey. Only cost just over £12 with my staff discount anyway so that's not a lot for a once in a year spend.

[Nick]

There is no doubt that vegans are shit in an iron bucket, but even a broken clock is right twice a day and so I ain't having turkey this Christmas

I'm not decrying their sentiment, I've just never met a group of people so sanctimonious that are failing in their goals at every level. 

[johnofgwent]

It is fair to say that there is a division of opinion and it was interesting recently to see a report of vegan parents raising their child vegan and it was grossly underweight and I believe died. I think it was an American case. The problem is that the current fad and admonition from the most vociferous is driving people to adopt the vegan style without real study of the nutritional requirements for a healthy body long term. It's long term that the real results will become visible.
There are a variety of reports about lack of calcium in a vegan diet for example and certainly vegan ready meals that I feel many will go to are too often high in all the things that are added to recreate the taste of meats while actually being unhealthy.  An educated vegan is quite different from those who follow the fad simply because it's a trend and food manufacturers are supplying the need without any real responsibility for the long term health affects. While it is true that a good vegan diet helps certain diseases - eg, diabetes, cancer, heart conditions etc that is all lost when a fall on weak bones causes broken hips galore.

Ok Lab Coat time

it is POSSIBLE to sustain yourself nutritionally on a no meat, no fish, no dairy diet but it is bloody hard work, I know several individuals who do it and look quite worryingly unwell but others fare better. I was stunned to find the security guard at my last place of work was both vegan and capable of picking up the front of my baby Suzuki car with his bare hands. Like I said, it is possible but takes a lot of doing.

I have worked with numerous vegetarians over the years and while working alongside them over long periods curiosity led me back to the vegetarian diet mainly to see how much variety is possible now compared to the days I had a largely vegetarian diet as a student because I was too poor in those days to afford meat.

I'm not aware of anyone trying to feed an infant a vegan diet I'm not sure how that would work.

This year we are having a turkey crown as a change because we haven't had it for a while. Last year was roast beef, and a half side of salmon on Boxing Day, the year before that slow roast leg of lamb. 

Frankly I look forward to 'doing something different' at Christmas. Until now that has not included a nut roast!!

[Nalaar]

It is fair to say that there is a division of opinion and it was interesting recently to see a report of vegan parents raising their child vegan and it was grossly underweight and I believe died. I think it was an American case. The problem is that the current fad and admonition from the most vociferous is driving people to adopt the vegan style without real study of the nutritional requirements for a healthy body long term. It's long term that the real results will become visible.
There are a variety of reports about lack of calcium in a vegan diet for example and certainly vegan ready meals that I feel many will go to are too often high in all the things that are added to recreate the taste of meats while actually being unhealthy.  An educated vegan is quite different from those who follow the fad simply because it's a trend and food manufacturers are supplying the need without any real responsibility for the long term health affects. While it is true that a good vegan diet helps certain diseases - eg, diabetes, cancer, heart conditions etc that is all lost when a fall on weak bones causes broken hips galore.

Again the claim you made was "Very few manage a healthy vegan diet" is this in reference to a particular study or is it just more of a feeling you have based on 'a variety of reports' you have seen?

[Streetwalker]

You will take my bacon sandwich from my cold and lifeless hand.

Im with you on this papa ,  its not a meal without something that used to be breathing on the plate 

[T00ts]

This is a factual and quantifiable statement, do you have a source for it?
I think the same can be said when you fine-grain a lot of definitions that have moral and modern industrial implications.

As for the advert - It's odd for PETA to produce subtle/understated media, so that's a welcome change, long may it continue.

It is fair to say that there is a division of opinion and it was interesting recently to see a report of vegan parents raising their child vegan and it was grossly underweight and I believe died. I think it was an American case. The problem is that the current fad and admonition from the most vociferous is driving people to adopt the vegan style without real study of the nutritional requirements for a healthy body long term. It's long term that the real results will become visible. 
There are a variety of reports about lack of calcium in a vegan diet for example and certainly vegan ready meals that I feel many will go to are too often high in all the things that are added to recreate the taste of meats while actually being unhealthy.  An educated vegan is quite different from those who follow the fad simply because it's a trend and food manufacturers are supplying the need without any real responsibility for the long term health affects. While it is true that a good vegan diet helps certain diseases - eg, diabetes, cancer, heart conditions etc that is all lost when a fall on weak bones causes broken hips galore.

[papasmurf]

As for the advert - It's odd for PETA to produce subtle/understated media, so that's a welcome change, long may it continue.

Actually PETA has a track record of putting both feet in their gob with badly researched information before campaigns.

They have got better recently though.

[Nalaar]

The drive for a vegan diet is very disingenuous. Very few manage a healthy vegan diet

This is a factual and quantifiable statement, do you have a source for it?

But I recon going of the definition of being Vegan I recon there are none in the world.

I think the same can be said when you fine-grain a lot of definitions that have moral and modern industrial implications. 

As for the advert - It's odd for PETA to produce subtle/understated media, so that's a welcome change, long may it continue. 

[patman post]

Honey isn't vegan:

Honey is made by bees for bees, and their health can be sacrificed when it is harvested by humans. Importantly, harvesting honey does not correlate with The Vegan Society's definition of definition of veganism, which seeks to exclude not just cruelty, but exploitation.
https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/why-go-vegan/honey-industry

But human breast milk is regarded as vegan:

The good news for vegan moms and moms-to-be is that you can breastfeed your baby without breaking with your values.
https://www.healthline.com/health/breastfeeding/is-breast-milk-vegan

So, vegans should be able to indulge in human breast milk ice cream — except Health & Safety decided that human produce from willing donors was less safe than dairy farm product...
https://www.livescience.com/13057-breast-milk-ice-cream-seized.html#:~:text=Local%20officials%20in%20London%20have%20confiscated%20ice%20cream,the%20virus%20could%20transmitted%20through%20via%20breast%20milk.

Just had a slap round the head for wondering out loud if we might get Mrs P earning extra pin money before number three arrives...

[Borchester]

The definition of a Vegan is someone that eats food that has not exploited animals.
Seeing as Bees pollinate everything at our behest, I'm calling that exploitation. Unless it's a naturally occurring fruit tree or plant that hasn't been planted by man.

The definition of a Vegan is someone who is a hypocritical pain in the arse.

But like Toots, I won't be having a Turkey this Christmas

[T00ts]

There is no doubt that vegans are shit in an iron bucket, but even a broken clock is right twice a day and so I ain't having turkey this Christmas

Neither will I. It is over-rated and over priced. 

[Borchester]

And we all know how to tell when someone is Vegan, they'll tell you.
Im totally against cruelty of animals, and I've seen quite a lot on my travels. A phase in China of having a live goldfish on a key ring, totally sealed and the poor thing perishes from lack of oxygen. I still admire the Chinese mindset when it comes to food, cause they do not waste food, they eat everything. But I recon going of the definition of being Vegan I recon there are none in the world.

There is no doubt that vegans are shit in an iron bucket, but even a broken clock is right twice a day and so I ain't having turkey this Christmas

[papasmurf]

You will take my bacon sandwich from my cold and lifeless hand.