Time to cull the charity con?

[T00ts]

Well you see it wrong imo,your parents paid the tax for your education and your argument is flawed on the one hand you say the state education you got you pay for when you start work then go on to say private education tax breaks get higher paid jobs don't you see how unfair that is......shouldn't education be targeted to serve all and the brightest whatever their parents income?

You just support a system that rewards privelege rather than merit,shouldn't merit whatever your bith circumstances be counted and the opportunity there for all so that the most able can but the less able are not dismissed as being of less worth?

Can't you see how flawed your argument here is? Of course all children should be catered for and lifted as high as they can be but the truth is that private schooling does precisely that. Smaller classes, discipline, respect and order is high on the list of priorities and yes it all sounds like privilege when you look at what they have done to State education and that is what parents scrimp and scrape to buy. Huge schools where teachers have to have a crib sheet at parent's evening to remember what a kid looks like. Little real discipline and strong on indoctrination of whatever is the current fad is forcing parents into alternatives. Do you have any real idea of any Government making State education run along the same lines as private? 

I will assume probably not. The talk is all kids having the same chances yet Universities are turning clever privately educated kids away in favour of not as bright State kids. Why is that fair? There is a failing ethos in State education - sort that out and parents won't have to make sure they live in a better catchment area or resort in desperation to paying for what they expected State education to provide.
As it is all private schools work with their communities to share their privately funded facilities, scholarships to bright kids whose parents can't afford, and special events to benefit other peoples kids, take away charitable status and all that will stop.

What happens to the genius kids? My grand-daughter is off the charts. She is in her first term at Senior private school and the teachers are already telling us that they are not sure how they will keep up with her. So we put her in the local comprehensive because Labour thinks that's right. They wouldn't know what to do with her, but Labour will punish her parents by forcing them to pay twice for her education and then at uni level send her abroad. 

Forgive me if it looks like envy. Envy that all don't fit into the limited provision of the State, envy that some parents put their kids education as their first priority and bend over backwards to fund it, while going without many things that other 'poorer' families treat as essentials. The amount of cash made available to the State would be peanuts in terms of the changes needed in the public sector to even begin to match yet Labour thinkers are fed the rubbish that it would make a huge difference. What is missed is that no country can survive without a core of clever people so if the state can't produce that the whole country fails yet again. Give me a break.

[papasmurf]

Private education has given Britain the current crop of totally useless and out of touch politicians.

[cromwell]

The tax paid toward education is a good point  . As I see it we pay for the education we had , poorly educated  earn less in general so pay less tax . Better educated especially those privately educated have higher paying jobs so pay more tax . More than making up for the tax breaks their parents received while they were in the classroom .

Well you see it wrong imo,your parents paid the tax for your education and your argument is flawed on the one hand you say the state education you got you pay for when you start work then go on to say private education tax breaks get higher paid jobs don't you see how unfair that is......shouldn't education be targeted to serve all and the brightest whatever their parents income?

You just support a system that rewards privelege rather than merit,shouldn't merit whatever your bith circumstances be counted and the opportunity there for all so that the most able can but the less able are not dismissed as being of less worth?

[Streetwalker]

You wouldn't know a good point if you sat on it,Steve though raised a good point why as he's never had kids pay taxes towards education.

I guess though he recognises that society is where we all chip in for the whole,if you then choose not to take what is offered by that society and go private don't expect tax breaks on it.

The tax paid toward education is a good point  . As I see it we pay for the education we had , poorly educated  earn less in general so pay less tax . Better educated especially those privately educated have higher paying jobs so pay more tax . More than making up for the tax breaks their parents received while they were in the classroom .

[papasmurf]

And the next uber-bright child who's parents can't afford the school fees can be told to sling their hook when they want a free scholarship place?

Red herring by you. That will not change, few such free scholarships are handed out as it is. Just the bare minimum to keep charitable status.

[cromwell]

It's these children, who's parents may struggle to give them the best education, that go on to be a biochemist or such and develop a cancer drug that might save a less well off persons life. You're prepared to cancel this route through the politics of envy.

Envy,envy,envy is all you can spout I'm not and never have been envious of those who've made something have your big houses the cars spend your money as you wish but don't expect a tax break on it.

The route as you call it is for those with the wherewithal to pay,the route you would see closed is for an education system that serves all the very best.

[Nick]

People who can afford private education for their children can afford for those fees not to be subsidised by the taxpayer.

And the next uber-bright child who's parents can't afford the school fees can be told to sling their hook when they want a free scholarship place?

[Nick]

You wouldn't know a good point if you sat on it,Steve though raised a good point why as he's never had kids pay taxes towards education.

I guess though he recognises that society is where we all chip in for the whole,if you then choose not to take what is offered by that society and go private don't expect tax breaks on it.

As for spite that's a bit rich coming from the one who took thatchers bribe and revels in being paid to skive whilst at hmrc but shows only spite to some of those who actually do work and expect to be fairly paid.

It's these children, who's parents may struggle to give them the best education, that go on to be a biochemist or such and develop a cancer drug that might save a less well off persons life. You're prepared to cancel this route through the politics of envy. 

[cromwell]

Good point.

Bit of arithmetic, which is admittedly a pain in the bum, but in this case is simple enough.

7% of children are educated privately, but the parents still  pay towards state education.

So 93% of children get 100% of public funding.

Which means that as a result of private education children in state schools get an extra 7.5% for their education budget. And this in turn means that were private schools abolished and all education fell upon the state, then taxes would have to be raised to fund it.

To be honest, I think a lot of parents would be delighted to pay the tax increase rather than the sky high fees charged by private schools. But the question that has to be asked is how much is Ollie prepared to pay for the sake of a piece of petty spite?

You wouldn't know a good point if you sat on it,Steve though raised a good point why as he's never had kids pay taxes towards education.

I guess though he recognises that society is where we all chip in for the whole,if you then choose not to take what is offered by that society and go private don't expect tax breaks on it.

As for spite that's a bit rich coming from the one who took thatchers bribe and revels in being paid to skive whilst at hmrc but shows only spite to some of those who actually do work and expect to be fairly paid.

[papasmurf]

People who can afford private education for their children can afford for those fees not to be subsidised by the taxpayer.

[Borchester]

Where will he find the extra school places for the thousands of kids that will be dumped on the state system ? 

Good point.

Bit of arithmetic, which is admittedly a pain in the bum, but in this case is simple enough.

7% of children are educated privately, but the parents still  pay towards state education.

So 93% of children get 100% of public funding.

Which means that as a result of private education children in state schools get an extra 7.5% for their education budget. And this in turn means that were private schools abolished and all education fell upon the state, then taxes would have to be raised to fund it.

To be honest, I think a lot of parents would be delighted to pay the tax increase rather than the sky high fees charged by private schools. But the question that has to be asked is how much is Ollie prepared to pay for the sake of a piece of petty spite?

[johnofgwent]

Mr Punch proposes ending charitable status for private schools,why stop there there are a lot of others with that status who should lose it....imo.

Private schools have charitable status because education has been considered a suitable aim of a charity for quite a while. If private schools are to lose that, I have a question. Do state schools get equal tax reliefs ? If so why should they not lose them ?

That question aside, having set up my daughter's PTA as a charity so as to claim these same benefits as private schools, I am perhaps one of a rather small number on here who has actually been involved in registering, running and reporting to the charity commissioners each year on the operation of an organisation given charitable status and I am less than impressed with the slide into overtly political matters and criticism of government policy that some supposed charities indulge in.

Such acts are absolutely forbidden and should rest in the organisation being struck from the register. That's what the law says.

[cromwell]

You don't see how unfair you are being. I don't see your argument. I'm going to bed I really can't be bothered.

I'm not being unfair and it's not personal at you or yours it's a political opinion.

In some respects the country is living in the past an adversarial class and political based past.

[T00ts]

The opt out is by choice,why is it fair the exchequer and country lose revenue by people choosing to pay to enable their kids a head start over the rest.

Would it be fair to reduce the tax on large luxurious cars that enable people to travel in more comfort,perhaps first class rail travel should have charitable status,air travel too and hotels in top flight resorts.......all are choices to spend your money but don't expect it be subsidised.

Its deemed unfair by some tories or doesn't that count?

I've never been a champion of comprehensive education but having looked at it perhaps the Finns can teach the rest of the world something no private education all kids in one system,they lead where others might follow.......would you deny ours that chance?
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/

You don't see how unfair you are being. I don't see your argument. I'm going to bed I really can't be bothered.

[cromwell]

Please tell me why it's fair for those who opt out of State education to subsidise State education when they don't want it or use it. You want it all ways.

The opt out is by choice,why is it fair the exchequer and country lose revenue by people choosing to pay to enable their kids a head start over the rest.

Would it be fair to reduce the tax on large luxurious cars that enable people to travel in more comfort,perhaps first class rail travel should have charitable status,air travel too and hotels in top flight resorts.......all are choices to spend your money but don't expect it be subsidised.

Its deemed unfair by some tories or doesn't that count?

I've never been a champion of comprehensive education but having looked at it perhaps the Finns can teach the rest of the world something no private education all kids in one system,they lead where others might follow.......would you deny ours that chance?
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/