Time to cull the charity con?

[T00ts]

If that's all true, there's no way every child can be subjected to eight hours of testing, however many you cram into a testing room.

Isn't it better to first get pupils in the educational environment, test them regularly to see how they're doing, and put them into groups with tailored teaching according to their needs...?

Most senior schools use this type of testing around 16 - 18yrs. I have used one of the systems that many Schools use and it takes at most an hour.

[patman post]

Nick again you know very little about a subject, they have a far wider use than that, and have been used for assessment of the capabilities or aptitudes someone has since 1916. They have been upgraded and modernised, since then on a regular basis.
A full set of tests, takes eight hours at a venue with all the kit.  Up to 30 people/children can be assessed, at a time.

They were regularly used by governments until Thatcher privatised them and they faded away after few years.
They are still used to assess wounded soldiers and some people with mental illness.

The tests cover a wide range physical abilities, and mental abilities. From the results what education/training direction is best for each individual to reach their full potential. 
(Tests can be repeated as children get older to modify and adapt the direction.)

If that's all true, there's no way every child can be subjected to eight hours of testing, however many you cram into a testing room.

Isn't it better to first get pupils in the educational environment, test them regularly to see how they're doing, and put them into groups with tailored teaching according to their needs...?

[papasmurf]

This is one of those news items where frankly I don't know what to comment, (yet.)

https://news.sky.com/story/strikes-every-day-before-christmas-which-industries-are-affected-and-why-12754663
Monday 5 December 2022 11:46, UK
Homeless charity staff

More than 600 workers at the housing and homeless charity Shelter are beginning an unprecedented fortnight of strike action on Monday 5 December in a dispute over pay.

[papasmurf]

Psychometric testing is used mostly before an employer interviews someone, it nothing to do with intelligence or capability, it tests your character and attitude.

Nick again you know very little about a subject, they have a far wider use than that, and have been used for assessment of the capabilities or aptitudes someone has since 1916. They have been upgraded and modernised, since then on a regular basis.
A full set of tests, takes eight hours at a venue with all the kit.  Up to 30 people/children can be assessed, at a time.

They were regularly used by governments until Thatcher privatised them and they faded away after few years.
They are still used to assess wounded soldiers and some people with mental illness.

The tests cover a wide range physical abilities, and mental abilities. From the results what education/training direction is best for each individual to reach their full potential.  
 (Tests can be repeated as children get older to modify and adapt the direction.)

[T00ts]

1 in 20 are scholarships at places like Eton, that is a very generous amount.

Yes and if a boy requires it and has the talent that needs the support, it can be 100% for 5 years. 

[Nick]

I wouldn't say they're huge and certainly not generous.

1 in 20 are scholarships at places like Eton, that is a very generous amount. 

[T00ts]

I wouldn't say they're huge and certainly not generous.
 

So nothing is worth having unless it is dominated by the State and appears totally free. I'm surprised you are not going for Food Banks.  

[Nick]

I know nothing about psychometric testing. I do recall that during my junior and secondarily education, each pupil was individually tested twice a year by a senior staff member on reading and, in later years, on aspects of numeracy.

Any problems with "comprehension and slowness" — which now have their own different identities — were identified and appeared to be catered for. I've no idea of the overall outcomes, but I do know that Sis and I returned to UK schooling in time for the GCSE, and we were at the top of our streams...

Psychometric testing is used mostly before an employer interviews someone, it nothing to do with intelligence or capability, it tests your character and attitude. 

[cromwell]

You really are blinkered. Private schools put something like £16.5 billion into the economy and £5,1 billion in tax contributions. They employ something akin to Sainsbury numbers. They also provide huge numbers of scholarships to those who can't pay. So in effect parents paying for private pay 3 times. Normal taxes if not the higher rate of tax, their child's education and then they pay for the scholarships as well. Typical Labour - not happy til they see blood.

I wouldn't say they're huge and certainly not generous.

What is a scholarship?

Almost all independent secondary schools offer scholarships in order to attract especially talented pupils. These are often highly competitive but are usually worth more in kudos than cash. The financial benefit of a scholarship is rarely worth more than 10 per cent of fees these days and often as little as £100 in vouchers for art supplies for an art scholar. However, scholars often have special privileges, extra coaching or tuition in their chosen discipline and additional trips, tours and mentoring for the duration of their time at the school.

[patman post]

I do and many other so called charities

Neither do I if the rest of us are not expected to subsidise it

I don't think you'll find me arguing with anything you say — other than your assumption that private schools are all playing the system to the detriment of the UK's overall tax take.

This where the organisations responsible for policing charity status, educational standards, and taxes could be more visible and, I suggest, their audits for all charitable establishments, should be published online...

[patman post]

There have been five million functionally illiterate adults in Britain since records began.  The assumption that all people can be academically educated it flawed. It is long overdue the problem is assessed using psychometric testing of children several times as they grow up, and that they are streamed accordingly.

I know nothing about psychometric testing. I do recall that during my junior and secondarily education, each pupil was individually tested twice a year by a senior staff member on reading and, in later years, on aspects of numeracy.

Any problems with "comprehension and slowness" — which now have their own different identities — were identified and appeared to be catered for. I've no idea of the overall outcomes, but I do know that Sis and I returned to UK schooling in time for the GCSE, and we were at the top of our streams...

[T00ts]

I do and many other so called charities

Neither do I if the rest of us are not expected to subsidise it

You really are blinkered. Private schools put something like £16.5 billion into the economy and £5,1 billion in tax contributions. They employ something akin to Sainsbury numbers. They also provide huge numbers of scholarships to those who can't pay. So in effect parents paying for private pay 3 times. Normal taxes if not the higher rate of tax, their child's education and then they pay for the scholarships as well. Typical Labour - not happy til they see blood.

[cromwell]

I see nothing wrong with schools operating as charities.

I do and many other so called charities

Neither do I see it wrong if some parents pay for private schooling.

Neither do I if the rest of us are not expected to subsidise it

[Nick]

There have been five million functionally illiterate adults in Britain since records began.  The assumption that all people can be academically educated it flawed. It is long overdue the problem is assessed using psychometric testing of children several times as they grow up, and that they are streamed accordingly.

And you'd be the one jumping up and down in disgust if that happened. You'd be saying it's some form of elitism weeding out the bright ones for special treatment. But that's what they do in private schools, they makes sure each pupil gets what they need. 

[papasmurf]

I doubt private education is lessening chances for state educated pupils — I suggest poorly performing state schools are the main cause of poor literacy and numeracy among today's adults and school leavers...

There have been five million functionally illiterate adults in Britain since records began.  The assumption that all people can be academically educated it flawed. It is long overdue the problem is assessed using psychometric testing of children several times as they grow up, and that they are streamed accordingly.