So where's the loyalty?

[Nick]

Nick if you get sacked your employer can end up being forced to pay out £thousands by a tribunal.
The same applies in your second point.

So that's a no then.

[papasmurf]

You live in cloud cuckoo land if you think you can't be sacked because you didn't sign it, you obviously have never heard of the ways and means act.
Show me in your link it says a prospective employer has to give you the job even if you don't want to sign it?

Nick if you get sacked your employer can end up being forced to pay out £thousands by a tribunal.
The same applies in your second point. 

[Nick]

Nick I already posted the link you did not read it:-


Maximum weekly working hours: Opting out of the 48 hour week - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)


Opting out of the 48 hour week

You can choose to work more than 48 hours a week on average if you're over 18. This is called 'opting out'.
Your employer can ask you to opt out, but you cannot be sacked or treated unfairly for refusing to do so.
You can opt out for a certain period or indefinitely. It must be voluntary and in writing.

Cancelling an opt-out agreement
You can cancel your opt-out agreement whenever you want - even if it's part of your employment contract.
You must give your employer at least 7 days' notice. You may have to give more notice (up to 3 months) if you have a written opt-out agreement.
Your employer cannot force you to cancel your opt-out agreement.

You live in cloud cuckoo land if you think you can't be sacked because you didn't sign it, you obviously have never heard of the ways and means act.
Show me in your link it says a prospective employer has to give you the job even if you don't want to sign it?

[papasmurf]

You really don't understand anything about this world do you.

Nick I already posted the link you did not read it:-


Maximum weekly working hours: Opting out of the 48 hour week - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)


Opting out of the 48 hour week

You can choose to work more than 48 hours a week on average if you're over 18. This is called 'opting out'.
Your employer can ask you to opt out, but you cannot be sacked or treated unfairly for refusing to do so.
You can opt out for a certain period or indefinitely. It must be voluntary and in writing.

Cancelling an opt-out agreement
You can cancel your opt-out agreement whenever you want - even if it's part of your employment contract.
You must give your employer at least 7 days' notice. You may have to give more notice (up to 3 months) if you have a written opt-out agreement.
Your employer cannot force you to cancel your opt-out agreement.

[papasmurf]

Actually Nick the moment I saw your bait there I felt it had to be worth a Google search

Thanks for that, also the Tribunals Service annual reports are a good source. (Nick has a habit of calling me a liar I am fed up with it.)
My wife was pestered on a regular basis to sign away working hours rights from an employer.  She never did.
There is a big difference in volunteering for overtime and being forced to do it.

[Nick]

John that would be illegal.

You really don't understand anything about this world do you.

[Nick]

Actually Nick the moment I saw your bait there I felt it had to be worth a Google search

https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/knowledge-base/employment-tribunals-workplace-disputes-in-the-uk

oh dear. Seems a law firm did the work for me

over the last ten years there has been a reduction in tribunal claims of well over 40% largely due to the Rees Mogg philosophy that wage serfs should be forced to pay some 10-15% of the pittance they get handed, more like 20% after deductions, to get justice, and I'm delighted to see that since that method of denying justice to the illegally treated workforce was terminated  cases are returning.

perhaps the most stark of the findings has been that last year there has bern a thirty per cent rise in the number of cases of working time directive complaints going to a tribunal instead of being settled out of court, an obvious reason for that being the rise in smarmy sharp suited law firms blagging their way to the ear of the boardroom occupants assuring them they cannot possibly lose, but most rejoice worthy of all the figures is the one showing four out of five of the arrogant bastards trying to bend those rules against the workforce have in fact been found to have broken the law.

An excellent kick in the balls for Mogg and his slavery cult.

So you're quite happy to take the stats from an employment lawyer touting for business, one that doesn't actually give you the figures for outcome on the Work time Directive.

[papasmurf]

Only because not signing means no job

John that would be illegal.

[johnofgwent]

Of course you are going to produce a big list of these prosecutions and fines aren't you? No you're just going to pretend you already did.

Actually Nick the moment I saw your bait there I felt it had to be worth a Google search

https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/knowledge-base/employment-tribunals-workplace-disputes-in-the-uk

oh dear. Seems a law firm did the work for me

over the last ten years there has been a reduction in tribunal claims of well over 40% largely due to the Rees Mogg philosophy that wage serfs should be forced to pay some 10-15% of the pittance they get handed, more like 20% after deductions, to get justice, and I'm delighted to see that since that method of denying justice to the illegally treated workforce was terminated  cases are returning.

perhaps the most stark of the findings has been that last year there has bern a thirty per cent rise in the number of cases of working time directive complaints going to a tribunal instead of being settled out of court, an obvious reason for that being the rise in smarmy sharp suited law firms blagging their way to the ear of the boardroom occupants assuring them they cannot possibly lose, but most rejoice worthy of all the figures is the one showing four out of five of the arrogant bastards trying to bend those rules against the workforce have in fact been found to have broken the law.

An excellent kick in the balls for Mogg and his slavery cult.

[johnofgwent]

It's not worth anything, it can't be policed, and virtually anyone who is asked to sign the opt out does.

Only because not signing means no job

[Nick]

Nick it is policed, industrial and employment tribunals are won, compensation is paid, people do refuse to opt out  and you are yet again wildly out of touch.

Hiding behind the same boring one liners. Do you know what happens if people refuse to opt out in a business where it's required? They don't get the job. 

Of course you are going to produce a big list of these prosecutions and fines aren't you? No you're just going to pretend you already did. 

[papasmurf]

It's not worth anything, it can't be policed, and virtually anyone who is asked to sign the opt out does.

Nick it is policed, industrial and employment tribunals are won, compensation is paid, people do refuse to opt out  and you are yet again wildly out of touch.

[Nick]

It is still law, and not been repealed despite Jacob Rees Mogg wanting workers to have no rights, no holidays and no minimum wage.

It's not worth anything, it can't be policed, and virtually anyone who is asked to sign the opt out does. 

[papasmurf]

Clearly you know nothing about it because this is a hangover from the EU work time directive and it's not worth the paper it's written on.

It is still law, and not been repealed despite Jacob Rees Mogg wanting workers to have no rights, no holidays and no minimum wage.

[Nick]

You do realise unless you are stupid enough to sign away your rights unless you are in an exempted job the maximum working hours per week is 48 hours.

Maximum weekly working hours: Overview - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Clearly you know nothing about it because this is a hangover from the EU work time directive and it's not worth the paper it's written on.