So where's the loyalty?

[Nick]

John posted the link with all the detail in it, 80% of cases won by the employee. (Which John explained in depth.)

Well John is wrong, and seeing you're being his b***h, perhaps you can point it out.

[papasmurf]

Seeing as you can read, you can point out where it shows the outcome of cases for the work time directive then.

I'll wait for your inevitable squirm out of it.

John posted the link with all the detail in it, 80% of cases won by the employee. (Which John explained in depth.)

[Nick]

Nick I have no problem reading ferry schedules for ferries that I use.  The other  ferries are of no use to me whatsoever.

Seeing as you can read, you can point out where it shows the outcome of cases for the work time directive then. 

I'll wait for your inevitable squirm out of it. 

[papasmurf]

I won't take the word of someone that can't even read a ferry schedule thank you.

Nick I have no problem reading ferry schedules for ferries that I use.  The other  ferries are of no use to me whatsoever.

[Nick]

It is there, you did not read all of the link, (as per usual.)

I won't take the word of someone that can't even read a ferry schedule thank you. 

[papasmurf]

He can't see what isn't there.

It is there, you did not read all of the link, (as per usual.)

[Nick]

Obviously John can see what you can't.

He can't see what isn't there. 

[papasmurf]

It doesn't mention the success rates of work time directive that I can see.

Obviously John can see what you can't.

[Nick]

But they did.

The article took a bit of reading but clearly stated the percentages of claims settled out of court, taken to court, and won.

If I recall correctly the summary stated there had been a significant drop in cases raised, which could be viewed as less employees being dissatisfied but could also be viewed as fewer finding a way to make their grievance heard, particularly since the tories created fees of over £1000 to make a tribunal application, a trend that has now reversed with the cancellation of the fees.

they went on to say in recent years there has been a rise in cases once raised actually going to the tribunal, implying the employers think they have a good chance of getting their way, but then the actual figures show about 80% of the working time complaints are upheld.

as Brian cox says 'of course it's true, you can f**king see it'

It doesn't mention the success rates of work time directive that I can see. 

[papasmurf]

they went on to say in recent years there has been a rise in cases once raised actually going to the tribunal, implying the employers think they have a good chance of getting their way, but then the actual figures show about 80% of the working time complaints are upheld.

as Brian cox says 'of course it's true, you can f**king see it'

Quite, IF employees can be represented at tribunals the success rate is higher than 80%. (It is why being in a union is a good idea.)

[johnofgwent]

Inaccurate claims aren't  the issue, they don't give their success rate in taking these claims to court.

But they did.

The article took a bit of reading but clearly stated the percentages of claims settled out of court, taken to court, and won.

If I recall correctly the summary stated there had been a significant drop in cases raised, which could be viewed as less employees being dissatisfied but could also be viewed as fewer finding a way to make their grievance heard, particularly since the tories created fees of over £1000 to make a tribunal application, a trend that has now reversed with the cancellation of the fees.

they went on to say in recent years there has been a rise in cases once raised actually going to the tribunal, implying the employers think they have a good chance of getting their way, but then the actual figures show about 80% of the working time complaints are upheld. 

as Brian cox says 'of course it's true, you can fucking see it'

[Nick]

yes, i am. I take it you are saying they are inaccurate in the claim ?

I feel it likely thay are using data derived from here

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/tribunals-statistics#employment-tribunal-and-employment-appeal-tribunal-statistics-(gb)

But this isn't my argument, it's you who is claiming it to be bullshit and now the server is back I have a day job to do.

Inaccurate claims aren't  the issue, they don't give their success rate in taking these claims to court.

[papasmurf]

So that's a no then.

The only no, is you yet again in denial. Rogue employers get their backsides bitten when they ignore employment regulation when it gets to tribunal.  It can cost them many £thousands in compensation, and/or in extreme cases end up with the business closing.

[johnofgwent]

Anyway, I feel this thread has strayed somewhat from its intent

To bring it back into line, and to prove there may be more in common with a certain devolved government and the one its extremist cottage burners would like to be rid of, I post this from over 40 years ago ...

https://youtu.be/wXKDPFpjJcI

[johnofgwent]

So you're quite happy to take the stats from an employment lawyer touting for business, one that doesn't actually give you the figures for outcome on the Work time Directive.

yes, i am. I take it you are saying they are inaccurate in the claim ?

I feel it likely thay are using data derived from here

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/tribunals-statistics#employment-tribunal-and-employment-appeal-tribunal-statistics-(gb)

But this isn't my argument, it's you who is claiming it to be bullshit and now the server is back I have a day job to do.