End of the Good Friday agreement

[Baff]

Might be skin off your nose, but its what you signed up for.

Incorrect.
The agreement which your government signed on your behalf makes this explicitly clear.

In the event of any actions affecting our trade adversely, you are to either agree changes to those mechanism or if not, the UK is to give you due notice of it's intention to do so without your agreement.
To act unilaterally to protect it's own market.

You keep crying about how you expect us to honour the agreement we have signed. We have done so and we continue to do so.
You on the other hand have no intention of doing so. And indeed have already famously broken it.
You have no  intention whatsoever of acting in good faith of the agreement you have signed.

You never once did.

Instead you thought you had forced us into a trap that would enshrine your authority over us.
A self delusion based on nothing more than your own blind desire to do so.
More fool you.

You have a global reputation. It is of your own making.
And it's not a very good one.

[Sheepy]

I said it was an old article, do you think anything has changed for the Dutch since the article? Have they suddenly found some new fishing grounds? No so the situation is exactly the same and they are still dependent on the U.K. fishing grounds, and your laughter just shows you have no answer to the Dutch plight, so yes the U.K. does hold those cards, and the same with the Belgium's and French. 

Just the EU desperately trying to stop us moving forward, which is pretty much backed up by everything Gerry writes. It is either the EU way or not at all. Which in actual fact has always been so and most likely will always be so.

[Nick]

I thought you had linked a balanced report on the plight of the Dutch since brexit. Then you go and link an express article and its from 2017

I said it was an old article, do you think anything has changed for the Dutch since the article? Have they suddenly found some new fishing grounds? No so the situation is exactly the same and they are still dependent on the U.K. fishing grounds, and your laughter just shows you have no answer to the Dutch plight, so yes the U.K. does hold those cards, and the same with the Belgium's and French.  

[GerryT]

And again you miss the point, it has nothing to do with our GDP, it's the EU's reliance on our waters. Why are the French fishermen up in arms over it and the Netherlands is almost totally reliant on our waters.
Here is an old article with the Dutch pleading with the U.K., the situation will only get worse for the Dutch.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/831975/Dutch-fishermen-UK-EU-Brexit-fishing-waters/amp

It doesn't matter how much GDP is to the French and the like, it's the fact of no fish on the table and thousands of jobs gone.

I thought you had linked a balanced report on the plight of the Dutch since brexit. Then you go and link an express article  and its from 2017  

[Nick]

You're all deluded lads. What value is the fishing industry in the UK, something like 0.03% of uk gdp, you're over playing that card.
We've been over this so often. The uk have the fish, well until scotland leaves and takes it back to the eu. the eu the market. But uk fishermen fish in eu waters also. Its a spagetti of business. Like the trade deal, you didnt hold all the cards then and you dont now.

And again you miss the point, it has nothing to do with our GDP, it's the EU's reliance on our waters. Why are the French fishermen up in arms over it and the Netherlands is almost totally reliant on our waters. 
Here is an old article with the Dutch pleading with the U.K., the situation will only get worse for the Dutch. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/831975/Dutch-fishermen-UK-EU-Brexit-fishing-waters/amp

It doesn't matter how much GDP is to the French and the like, it's the fact of no fish on the table and thousands of jobs gone. 

[GerryT]

You're all deluded lads. What value is the fishing industry in the UK, something like 0.03% of uk gdp, you're over playing that card.
We've been over this so often. The uk have the fish, well until scotland leaves and takes it back to the eu. the eu the market. But uk fishermen fish in eu waters also. Its a spagetti of business. Like the trade deal, you didnt hold all the cards then and you dont now.

[Borchester]

https://www.centrefortheunion.co.uk/post/centre-for-the-union-report-restoring-northern-ireland-to-the-union-2023?mc_cid=e405026175&mc_eid=b4c82b85b0


Quite clear and what the UK should be posting to Brussels, when they can agree to the principle we can sit down and have a beer .

Sounds good.

As you say, clear, to the point and probably acceptable to the UK. All we need is for Leo Varadkar to put his chop on the paperwork and everything will be done and dusted

[Nick]

https://www.centrefortheunion.co.uk/post/centre-for-the-union-report-restoring-northern-ireland-to-the-union-2023?mc_cid=e405026175&mc_eid=b4c82b85b0


Quite clear and what the UK should be posting to Brussels, when they can agree to the principle we can sit down and have a beer .

Once France, Belgium and especially the Netherlands have almost no access to our fishing waters they'll want to talk. Until then we just have to carry on as we are in my opinion. 

[Streetwalker]

https://www.centrefortheunion.co.uk/post/centre-for-the-union-report-restoring-northern-ireland-to-the-union-2023?mc_cid=e405026175&mc_eid=b4c82b85b0


Quite clear and what the UK should be posting to Brussels, when they can agree to the principle we can sit down and have a beer . 

[GerryT]

I have to say that I am a bit lost as to what is actually happening.

What is this deal that Gerry's friends are offering and how is it to the advantage of the UK?

Prior to 2019 the EU would have wanted data sharing, showing the flow of goods between NI and GB. The UK didn't want that so it didn't happen. The talks at the moment on GB-NI trade are looking at trying to introduce a "green lane" for goods travelling from GB and destined for only NI use. Say a factory in NI is buying steel from the UK then this shipment would be very light touch and practically transport as if there were no checks.  For this to happen, data sharing is required and the UK has signed up to do that, its a measure to try improve how the signed deal works. It's a good idea and shows with time, the issues faced can be addressed and resolved.  But Baff likes to equate this to a winner and loser, someone backing down or being weak. The reality is it's two sides understanding the issues and finding solutions, together.

[GerryT]

The reason the U.K. hasn't gone 'solo' ad you put it, is because the government is riddled with remoaners who are hell bent on stopping the full Brexit.

You have brexit, this is the brexit you signed up for. It's not like your govt said the deal was X and they are delivering Y. The deal was X and they are delivering X.

Brexit has been financially very bad for the UK, a no deal brexit would be worse.

[GerryT]

The core intent of the NIP is only here to stay if you choose to co-operate with us.
Otherwise, it's not.

Ending the NIP is very popular in the country politically. An election winner.
It's the one issue that unifies both the Tory and Labour vote.

Nothing has happened by us being open and agreeable.
What exactly is it you think SI has done in return for us offering to share our data with them?

Nothing whatsoever.


We are willing to help you.
That is all.
You offer nothing in return.



Sensible stuff like this, "max fac" as it was originally proposed, is obvious.
It's no skin off our noses to link you into the digital records we keep.

The core intent of the NIP is to backup the GFA and recognise that NI is an area with a unique geopolitical makeup. Where the people themselves decide what country they will be a part of, where else in the world has that happened. NI is not just another region of the UK, it's unique. Ending the NIP may be popular to you, but where's the evidence that a majority of people feel like that, where did you get that idea from. The NIP and UK-EU trade agreement are one in the same thing, they come together, do away with one and you do away with the other. No UK politician is ever going to do that. The NIP requires the UK to carry out checks between GB and NI, that's what you signed up for. But like so many on here have repeated, "we knew what we were voting for". Johnson got a massive majority for the NIP & TCA, you bought it so own it.

The EU is doing the UK a favour by making those checks easier with data sharing. The UK is doing nobody a favour. The last favour the UK did for IRL was the loan after the crash, at high interest rates and penalties for trying to repay early. Even when we tried to repay early the UK said get stuffed. Those sort of favours you can do without.

Trade restrictions of our own goods in our own country on the other hand is very much skin off our noses and we will not be doing this.
So you might as well stop thinking that we have ever agreed to that. The NIP makes explicitly clear that we have not.
And quite frankly the idea is so very ludicrous that you would have to be a dribbling idiot to ever have imagined that we did.

What we have agreed to, is to do your customs checks for you ahead of the goods reaching your border.
If you don't like the way we do it, do it for yourself.

Might be skin off your nose, but its what you signed up for. Stop being a cry baby and just get on with it.  Call it a life lesson, when you agree to do something there's no point in having your fingers crossed behind your back. You're going to have to deliver on your promise. The customs checks are between GB and NI, how else do you know what's being shipped.

[Borchester]

I have to say that I am a bit lost as to what is actually happening.

What is this deal that Gerry's friends are offering and how is it to the advantage of the UK?

[GerryT]

According to her, they didn't invite her.
According to them, they did invite her.

According to them they didn't invite her. That is a most definite 'did not invite her'.  She was invited to a meal after the meetings, but not the meetings. There was some excuse about her being a member of an EU parliament. WHat a load of crap.

Getting both the DUP and Sinn Fein to turn up together in the same room is like herding cats.
Apparently there is always some excuse for one or the other not to attend.

That's not true, the DUP won't sit in govt with a sinn fein leader, but sinn fein did when the DUP held the first minister post. The point was and is, Sinn Fein are the largest party in NI, you don't purposefully leave them out if you are the person responsible for keeping NI functioning or the person in charge of foreign affairs. You invite both and let them decide if they won't show, if they don't the electorate will deal with them in due course.

These people simply don't wish to get on.
What can you do?

Don't take sides for one. If you are in charge you are suppose to represent all the people of the territory or are we back to the good old days of some being more equal than others

[GerryT]

Its everything to do with an invisible border . The technology is there its just a question of where they are going to use it 

Would you stop with the technology, it wasn't there when some eejit proposed it during the talks and it still isn't there. The only way to know what's in a container or car is to physically look. If the technology existed it would be used all around the world, its not.

EU plan is goods would be proocessed remotely on the ferry . Marcos Sefcocvic for the EU said the 'border would be invisble under EU plans' 
The  UK on the other hand say if you can have an invisible border on a ferry you can have one in Ireland which would see N Ireland free of single market regulation ,comply with the GFA and to anyone looking an invisible  border . 

Can't you see he was giving a politician answer, to the then Truss car-crash. What he said, was said about 6 months ago. That with the data checks could be done on a boat. But where does all this paperwork come from. It's the paperwork that is causing the biggest issues. You still have suppliers having to fill out all sorts of forms and front pay all sorts of duties & tariffs & VAT. You then still have to prove that the goods are for consumption/use in NI and won't be then brought into the EU. So how is that any different to today ? You can create a green lane, but that doesn't do away with the red lane or the physical checks. The UK signed up to have these in GB. Maybe the UK could ship all this to Rwanda.