Why the poor get poorer

[Streetwalker]

If people are on low incomes they cannot get a mortgage because the "multiplier" applied by banks and building societies would not give them a mortgage big enough to buy a garage let alone a home.

That diddn't apply when you went through mortgage brokers or 'financial advisors' who thought more about the commission than being honest on the application . Self employed self certificated , you just put down what was required . I had my first mortgage as a 19 year old apprentice .

IR35 did for a lot of self employed, but to be fair, a lot of them were working disguised employment so it kind of worked. I knew a lot of electrical draftsmen who did 9 to 5 at the same office for 2 years and then moved to another one cause they had it in their head that 2 years then a move kept them safe, nope!! They're nearly all PAYE now.

Yes I remember building companies saying we had to go on the cards , we just changed building companies . As I remember as long as you had at least a couple of employers to put down on the tax return you could stay self employed . Another thing that was made up as some builders just registered two or more companies and you  switched between them often while working on the  same site 

[Nick]

The poor have got poorer because the rich have got greedier , De -unionisation of the workforce , zero hours non contract workers ,low level self employment  and mass immigration of cheap labour have all contributed

Over priced housing ,a broken NHS , pathetic public transport  and the cost of living takes what little spare we have . The crappo will hit the fan in years to come when the above workforce retires . Millions of people with nothing but a basic pension in rented accomodation they can not afford .

Poor will then take on a whole different meaning

Our /my generation have had it pretty good and we will at worst get by the next one though will in the main not be so lucky

IR35 did for a lot of self employed, but to be fair, a lot of them were working disguised employment so it kind of worked. I knew a lot of electrical draftsmen who did 9 to 5 at the same office for 2 years and then moved to another one cause they had it in their head that 2 years then a move kept them safe, nope!! They're nearly all PAYE now. 

[Nick]

I pointed out many of the poor do not have internet access.

Then they are not on this forum, is that too difficult a concept for you?

[Nick]

Not bitter Borky but hate injustices.

Ive always been not just recent,masked I guess by supporting brexit,voting Tory to see it done and despising Bliar.

Anyway call me what you like you know it makes no difference.

I don't have betters btw I'm no better or worse than most,it's called being human.

If someone builds a business model to make money, how is it injustice if that business model makes money? 

There is so much crap coming out ATM, it's unreal. I heard a spokesman for the NHS on the radio today saying he has mates that have left the NHS to go and work in OZ because they get 4 times the pay. So I checked: average DR pay in OZ is 173,000 AUD, in the U.K. it's £97,000. Exactly the same amount. 

It's like the Titan: expert Jack doesn't set about trying to save himself and Rose, he sees how many first class passengers he can drown before he drowns. 

[papasmurf]

Oh yes they did . 

If people are on low incomes they cannot get a mortgage because the "multiplier" applied by banks and building societies would not give them a mortgage big enough to buy a garage let alone a home.

[Streetwalker]

Poor people never had access to mortgages

Oh yes they did . The endowment mortgage gave anyone , and I mean anyone a mortgage even if they couldn't pay it back . House price increases saw most getting away with it , those unfortunate enough to get caught in downturns and negative equity not so lucky .

the middle class will start to be poor now their mortgages are skyrocketing. (Plus the stealth taxes they are going to face in the next few year.)

Yes its a worry for them ,hopefully will lead to an adjustment in the housing market that will lead to more affordable homes but thats all a guessing game at the moment 

[papasmurf]

No one was crying for the poor when they all got access to cheap mortgages.

Poor people never had access to mortgages, the middle class will start to be poor now their mortgages are skyrocketing. (Plus the stealth taxes they are going to face in the next few year.)

[Baff]

No one was crying for the poor when they all got access to cheap mortgages.

Yes, housing prices have gone up because more people now own houses. Because more poor people could get bank loans, essentially.
The is an example of everyone even poor people getting richer. Of social mobility. Immigration is a strong factor in house price inflation, but not the primary one.
Bringing poor people into the housing market was.


As for the NHS, it's an insanely superior service to what it was in the past.
It's the thing of a rich country. Not a poor one.

Poor people don't have access to costly health care.
Let alone premium healthcare on a par with private healthcare in all the other first world countries.
Poor people here live long and have access to a gazillion treatments and medicines.
The mortality rate here is constantly diminishing.

They are demonstrably getting richer.
The NHS is demonstrably curing and treating ever more illnesses and conditions.
Life expectancies are extending. Quality of life is improving. Life for the poor has been transformational.
Who is dying in child birth? Who is losing half of their children to illness?
This is most definitely not a negative direction of travel.



The migrant stuff.
Yes and no.

The migrants are the poor. They are the working class here.
And the poor people they have displaced for work have often become much richer. On benefits. No longer being working class at all.
So yes to a point, but also no.



@"Middle class poverty". /facepalm.

[papasmurf]

The poor have got poorer because the rich have got greedier , De -unionisation of the workforce , zero hours non contract workers ,low level self employment  and mass immigration of cheap labour have all contributed

Over priced housing ,a broken NHS , pathetic public transport  and the cost of living takes what little spare we have . The crappo will hit the fan in years to come when the above workforce retires . Millions of people with nothing but a basic pension in rented accomodation they can not afford .

Poor will then take on a whole different meaning

Our /my generation have had it pretty good and we will at worst get by the next one though will in the main not be so lucky

Poverty is now creeping up to the middle classes, the Tory core vote.

[Streetwalker]

The poor have got poorer because the rich have got greedier , De -unionisation of the workforce , zero hours non contract workers ,low level self employment  and mass immigration of cheap labour have all contributed 

Over priced housing ,a broken NHS , pathetic public transport  and the cost of living takes what little spare we have . The crappo will hit the fan in years to come when the above workforce retires . Millions of people with nothing but a basic pension in rented accomodation they can not afford . 

Poor will then take on a whole different meaning 

Our /my generation have had it pretty good and we will at worst get by the next one though will in the main not be so lucky 

[Baff]

I fundamentally disagree that the poor are getting poorer.
I think that just flies in the face of all reality.

The exact opposite of the trend here and indeed everywhere else in the world for all of human history.

For example. Here, the poor have mobile phones and cars.
And colour TV's.
And health insurance.
And unemployment insurance.
And so on and so forth.

The poor have got much richer in my life time.
They can all afford things that for much of my life I never could.

You can mangle statistics to tell any story you please.
But the poor here, in their council estates, all seem well dressed and well fed to me.
There is car in every drive. They all have mobiles. I meet them on their holidays.
 They all have routes out of the council estates too. Education, bank loans etc. Social mobility.

Have the poor got poorer? I doubt it immensely.


Have some people got richer faster than poor people have got richer?

Interesting question. It's easier to make money when you have money right?
But also it's easier to lose money when you have money.

Losing money for a rich person doesn't leave them destitute.
Money is more valuable to those with less of it.

Equally gaining money doesn't advantage a richer person as much.
The rise in the sale value of your house price for example makes you no richer whatsoever. You have gained exactly nothing from this.



I don't like class war.
I've straddled both sides of that fence all my life.

I'm poor because you are rich.
Nope.
Doesn't work like that.

You owe me money because you have more than me.
Nope.
Doesn't work like that.

And I don't want it to.

[cromwell]

I'd love to hear from anyone on this forum who considers themselves poor and struggling to make ends meet.

This isn't about the circumstances of people on here,it's just pointing out and up for discussion an article.

I suspect most of the people on here are pretty much ok,as far as other posts  many internet providers now offer a service at reduced price for those retired and/or on limited income.

[papasmurf]

Like I said:

I'd love to hear from anyone on this forum who considers themselves poor and struggling to make ends meet.

and you went off on a tangent.

I pointed out many of the poor do not have internet access. 

[Barry]

It is factual not pathetic, 20% of those on benefits, (DWP own figure.) do not have internet access.

Like I said:

I'd love to hear from anyone on this forum who considers themselves poor and struggling to make ends meet. 

and you went off on a tangent.

[papasmurf]

That's pathetic Smurfy.
IF
Oh, and no one poor can afford to be on the Interweb, OOOKKKKAAAYYYYYYY.

It is factual not pathetic, 20% of those on benefits, (DWP own figure.) do not have internet access.