NI protocol

[Unlucky4Sum]

No I subscribe to using article 16 to make an agreement that brings N Ireland back into the United Kingdom and not subject to EU courts

Article 16 has limits, Boris just intended to ignore those

First the UK has to show "serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade". and the DUP/UVF having a strop does not count

Then they have to use the Annex 7 protocol and the UK didn't 

And unilaterally proceeding allows the EU to just rear up the whole UK-EU deal which would cause the UK serious difficulties

[Streetwalker]

Do you subscribe to this school of thought then?



Thing is Vader held all the cards, Boris and the UK do not, very much not.  And in any event unilaterally reneging on a deal is no more legitimate than Boris's extra marital offspring.

No I subscribe to using article 16 to make an agreement that brings N Ireland back into the United Kingdom and not subject to EU courts 

[Unlucky4Sum]

Which gave us legitamcy  to change it 

Do you subscribe to this school of thought then?



Thing is Vader held all the cards, Boris and the UK do not, very much not.  And in any event unilaterally reneging on a deal is no more legitimate than Boris's extra marital offspring.

[Streetwalker]

What you have is Johnsons plan,

Which gave us legitamcy  to change it 

May said only the full UK could leave, as a single country. She got the boot for that plan.

Quite right to , it was a rubbish deal ,thrown out of parliament with a record  defeat for a PM , twice .

It was Johnson that came to NI and said all would be ok, he wnet home and come up with the NI protocol and had a GE in 2019, where you voted for this. 

Not me personally no , there was still too much ambiguious EUland  double speak in it for my liking . I dont actually think many people did actually like it but after the Mayhem years many thought it was as good as it was going to get and with the protocol safegaurd went for it . 

Sunak in fairness doesn't know what to do with the Johnson messWe can say the same now for the UK sea border, that exists

I can agree with that 

[Nick]

And where will that border for red goods be?

In the Irish Sea perchance?

Of course it will be. Gerry gleefully posting about the UK and yet Eire has the same as the UK when it comes to travel, he kept very quiet about his trip last year to Serbia or where ever it was. He still had to pass through border control and show his passport, exactly the same as I would. In fact the last few times I've flown to the EU it has been quicker going through passport control because there isn't 5 million EU citizens queuing up in my line. 

[Unlucky4Sum]

The border in the sea will be no more next week. There is going to be a green channel for unchecked goods to NI and a red channel to the EU.

And where will that border for red goods be?

In the Irish Sea perchance?

[GerryT]

The border in the sea will be no more next week. There is going to be a green channel for unchecked goods to NI and a red channel to the EU.

The devil is in the detail, for a green channel to work it has checks, the DUP will go nuts if thats the detail.  The UK still has the same responsibility and that is to ensure goods don't go direct from the UK into the EU without complying with EU standards, thinking there will be a green channel freely open is delusion. 

[GerryT]

At no time has the UK ,government or people voted to leave NI in the EU . Theresa May couldn't get that one through parliament and it was only when Johnson put a clause in the agreement (that we could alter it later) that the can came to a tempoary standstill . 

What you have is Johnsons plan, May said only the full UK could leave, as a single country. She got the boot for that plan.
It was Johnson that came to NI and said all would be ok, he wnet home and come up with the NI protocol and had a GE in 2019, where you voted for this. Then his Govt gave him a resounding majority to do this. WHat you have is what you wanted.

We trusted Johnson to do the right thing ,he may well have done but was gone before his idea of the Irish deal  was brought to its conclusion . It looks like Sunak is back tracking on that to something more like  the Theresa May deal . It will be his downfall ,he will loose MP's and maybe his cabinet . 

Sunak in fairness doesn't know what to do with the Johnson mess

Agreed . There has always been different vat rates , fuel duty rates and a currency border between the NI and  EU land . A few lorry loads of Cows and a milkfloat shouldn't really be that hard to work out .

We can say the same now for the UK sea border, that exists

[Nick]

Really? It has to get through parliament first, next week.

Fair point, maybe not next week. 

[papasmurf]

The border in the sea will be no more next week. There is going to be a green channel for unchecked goods to NI and a red channel to the EU.

Really? It has to get through parliament first, next week.

[Nick]

Meanwhile the UK maintains its border in the Irish see between NI and GB. yep, you really showed us.

The border in the sea will be no more next week. There is going to be a green channel for unchecked goods to NI and a red channel to the EU. 

[GerryT]

It is probably past the point of no return for the Irish, a bit late seeing it all coming, despite the constant warnings.

Meanwhile the UK maintains its border in the Irish see between NI and GB. yep, you really showed us.

[GerryT]

Like I've told you many times Gerry, it's very simple. The government pulls NI back totally inside the UK and tells the EU it's their problem. The EU can erect a hard border if it wants but I'm telling you 100% they will give a real trade deal in days. None of this punishment crap, a real deal. Problem is the UK government is too weak to do it.

That very much sounds like "they need us more than we need them".  You seem to be suggesting that the UK would renege on the current deal and within days the EU would offer better terms. There is no punishment, the UK took itself out of the EU and the SM, the deal you have reflects that. Thats why its been called an act of self harm. If the UK breaks the agreement then a new one will be struck but because the UK is causing issues for the EU (in Irl) then that new deal will be on less favourable terms.
We'll see how it pans out as its going to happen this yr.

[Sheepy]

It is probably past the point of no return for the Irish, a bit late seeing it all coming, despite the constant warnings.

[Streetwalker]

The UK did exit, the plan Johnson came up with was GB out and NI half in. What I asked is what's the plan to take NI out, because Brexit got done and that involved leaving NI in.
That national election voted a man in with a large majority, his plan was to leave NI part in/part out. A vote for Johnson was a vote for that arrangement. If the whole UK leaving as one was a major red line, why did people vote Johnson. One of the main reasons conservatives will be voted out was all the lies, people were sold the lie that they would have a better life, the NHS would be fantastic again. All lies, that is the main reason. The reality is most UK people don't care one bit about NI
What protects the SM is what Johnson agreed. I don't think it's going anywhere. The red/green channel does look like it will make it somewhat smoother. It's a shame the UK didn't have a debate on the actual issues brexit brought, rather that talking about the Turkey migrants, the billions for the NHS, the corrupt EU, the "they need us more than we need them" etc  etc etc

At no time has the UK ,government or people voted to leave NI in the EU . Theresa May couldn't get that one through parliament and it was only when Johnson put a clause in the agreement (that we could alter it later) that the can came to a tempoary standstill . 
We trusted Johnson to do the right thing ,he may well have done but was gone before his idea of the Irish deal  was brought to its conclusion . It looks like Sunak is back tracking on that to something more like  the Theresa May deal . It will be his downfall ,he will loose MP's and maybe his cabinet . 

Like I've told you many times Gerry, it's very simple. The government pulls NI back totally inside the UK and tells the EU it's their problem. The EU can erect a hard border if it wants but I'm telling you 100% they will give a real trade deal in days. None of this punishment crap, a real deal. Problem is the UK government is too weak to do it.

Agreed . There has always been different vat rates , fuel duty rates and a currency border between the NI and  EU land . A few lorry loads of Cows and a milkfloat shouldn't really be that hard to work out .