NI protocol

[papasmurf]

Never trust any politician.

Still, it would be nice to have a Tory government

It would be nice to have a government. Britain is sliding down the crapper and the government doing nothing to stop it.

[Borchester]

Well now the excitment of Rishi's presentation and the apparent Royal approval there seems to be a problem with the all new protocol .

Its basicslly the same as the old one

EU law still applies in a part of the United Kingdom , VAT rates still set by the EU  ,ECJ still rules in NIreland while  the whole of the UK to remain under the supremacy of the ECHR

Yes there are a few bits with regard customs checks and technology being used that was always dissregarded as impossible  that are an improvment on the last draft but the main concerns were always with regard to sovereinty . And that hasn't changed .


An unelected globalist prime minister ,  jumping around like a teenager with his new best mate Von der Leyen telling us they have fixed everything Boris had broken while smiling like Cheshire cats . Its only a tidying up excercise so wont need a vote in Parliament ,  we are getting more like the EU every day.

Never trust a Tory .

Never trust any politician.

Still, it would be nice to have a Tory government

[Streetwalker]

Well now the excitment of Rishi's presentation and the apparent Royal approval there seems to be a problem with the all new protocol .

Its basicslly the same as the old one 

EU law still applies in a part of the United Kingdom , VAT rates still set by the EU  ,ECJ still rules in NIreland while  the whole of the UK to remain under the supremacy of the ECHR 

Yes there are a few bits with regard customs checks and technology being used that was always dissregarded as impossible  that are an improvment on the last draft but the main concerns were always with regard to sovereinty . And that hasn't changed .


An unelected globalist prime minister ,  jumping around like a teenager with his new best mate Von der Leyen telling us they have fixed everything Boris had broken while smiling like Cheshire cats . Its only a tidying up excercise so wont need a vote in Parliament ,  we are getting more like the EU every day.

Never trust a Tory .

[Nick]

Like where, where do 2 countries next door to each other that don't have a trade deal not have customs checks ?  Where are these "gaping holes".

As for Tunisian migrants, you make it sound like they nip over to sell some trinkets. The reality is their country is in turmoil and they risk their lives by spending up to 24hrs trying to get to Italy in makeshift boats/rafts and when they get to Italy they are processed as refugees. I wouldn't call that a gaping hole. 85% of global refugees land and stay in the nearest country to them, others travel onwards, it's why the UK see so few refugees compared to European countries on the east and south.

I'll get to the adjacent border aspect later, but not whilst I'm in the pub. 
But as for the Tunisians being processed, what a joke. I can only assume you've never been to southern Italy, the roads a lined with your so called processed illegals, and unless Italy is processing them and giving them prostitute status they aren't processed. You need to stop reading from the book EU for Dummies, it isn't how page 35 says it is. 

[GerryT]

This has been done to death Gerry and not all land borders have physical borders. The EU has big gaping holes in it, just cause the MSR's are covered doesn't mean the place is secure. Look at all these people pouring into Italy from Tunisia, mostly plying their trade at the side of the road.

Like where, where do 2 countries next door to each other that don't have a trade deal not have customs checks ?  Where are these "gaping holes".

As for Tunisian migrants, you make it sound like they nip over to sell some trinkets. The reality is their country is in turmoil and they risk their lives by spending up to 24hrs trying to get to Italy in makeshift boats/rafts and when they get to Italy they are processed as refugees. I wouldn't call that a gaping hole. 85% of global refugees land and stay in the nearest country to them, others travel onwards, it's why the UK see so few refugees compared to European countries on the east and south.

[Nick]

All countries have borders with 3rd countries where there is no trade deal. otherwise anything can be shipped into the UK without payment of UK tariffs or VAT and without meeting UK standards. People would just stop shipping direct to the UK and ship through IRL, Dublin to Belfast and over it goes. (TIR container through IRL).

What would you do, checks at UK ports ?  another word for a Border with checks.

This has been done to death Gerry and not all land borders have physical borders. The EU has big gaping holes in it, just cause the MSR's are covered doesn't mean the place is secure. Look at all these people pouring into Italy from Tunisia, mostly plying their trade at the side of the road.

[Streetwalker]

We had 2 years of Davis being undermined by Boris's malevolence as Foreign Secretary

Then May generally being an inadequate wet piece of nothing

Then 3 years of Boris being dishonest


Not a recipe for getting a stable deal

As Ive always said , Nothing wrong with leaving the EU till the tories took charge of it 

[Unlucky4Sum]

I dont know if that was an issue . More like the EU have realised the amount and type  of cross border trade in Ireland wasn't worth worrying about .

We had 2 years of Davis being undermined by Boris's malevolence as Foreign Secretary

Then May generally being an inadequate wet piece of nothing

Then 3 years of Boris being dishonest


 Not a recipe for getting a stable deal

[Streetwalker]

Had to wait til there was an honest broker on the UK side?

I dont know if that was an issue . More like the EU have realised the amount and type  of cross border trade in Ireland wasn't worth worrying about .

[Unlucky4Sum]

Well a new deal is in the offering , red /green lanes , number plate recognition , trusted trader ?? Feck me  that was suggested in 2016 , what a waste of time .

Had to wait til there was an honest broker on the UK side?

[Streetwalker]

Well a new deal is in the offering , red /green lanes , number plate recognition , trusted trader ?? Feck me  that was suggested in 2016 , what a waste of time .

[GerryT]

The UK will not put a border up, why would they?

All countries have borders with 3rd countries where there is no trade deal. otherwise anything can be shipped into the UK without payment of UK tariffs or VAT and without meeting UK standards. People would just stop shipping direct to the UK and ship through IRL, Dublin to Belfast and over it goes. (TIR container through IRL).

What would you do, checks at UK ports ?  another word for a Border with checks.

[GerryT]

It could

Brexit: What is Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol? - BBC News

Art16 has 3 short paragraphs, in summary they say
1. UK or EU can take safeguards that are restricted in scope and duration to strictly necessary actions that least disturb the protocol. If serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties.
2. Any measures taken that create an imbalance then the other party can take proportionate rebalancing measures. Priority will be given to those remeasures that least disturb the protocol.
3. Safeguard and Rebalance measures are governed by Annex 7.

So that's it, Art16 in total. The Brexit that the UK voted for directly require the border in the Irish sea, as agreed by the UK & EU, this is not a reason for taking an action. Safeguards are to be restricted in scope and duration, how does that fit with the way its been described.


Annex 7 goes further
1. If a safeguard measure is to be taken the notice without delay must be given to the Joint committee with all relevant detail.
2. UK and EU will immediately enter consultations in Joint committee to find a common acceptable solution.
3. Nobody can take a safeguard within 1 month of notice unless strictly necessary.
4. Whoever takes a safeguard will immediately notify the joint committee with all info
5. The safeguard measure will be discussed every 3 months at the joint committee with a view to their abolition before the date of expiry envisaged or to the limit of their application. ANy party can request the joint committee to review any safeguard measures.
6. all the above also applies to rebalancing measures.



This sounds very different to how its been described as unilaterally taking measures.  Ni economy is prob one of the best performing in the UK so that rules out economic and environmental difficulties. There will be far more societal issue arising from unilateral action and an EU rebalancing measure. A tiny percentage of DUP politicians and some hardcore unionists are against this arrangement. The vast majority of people are in favour of the current situation.


Anyway, I hear sunak has made some announcement that EU law will prevail in NI, anybody hear anymore ? 

[papasmurf]

Some of the documents now published:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-windsor-framework?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications-topic&utm_source=caa62de9-fe44-469a-b699-7527904008bd&utm_content=immediately

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1138989/The_Windsor_Framework_a_new_way_forward.pdf

[papasmurf]

Well on the first details it looks like a whole stack of reasonable concessions by the EU

https://news.sky.com/story/politics-news-latest-final-talks-on-post-brexit-deal-as-rishi-sunak-prepares-to-meet-eu-chief-in-sign-of-breakthrough-12593360

Devil in the detail until the full document is published there is no point in making any comment.